Manager Paul Lambert

[Morpheus]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

[Morpheus]

 

Not sure that any club would want to purchase those players at the moment but it's all conjecture.

That wasn't what we were talking about though.

 

No but it is relevant to how much any club would want to pay or not as it maybe to disclose valuation.

[samjp26]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Edited December 14, 2013 by samjp26

[Mantis]

 

 

Not sure that any club would want to purchase those players at the moment but it's all conjecture.

That wasn't what we were talking about though.

 

No but it is relevant to how much any club would want to pay or not as it maybe to disclose valuation.

 

The point was that a lot of Lambert's buys are worth more than what we bought them for, not whether or not we'd be able to sell them now.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

Not sure that any club would want to purchase those players at the moment but it's all conjecture.

That wasn't what we were talking about though.

 

No but it is relevant to how much any club would want to pay or not as it maybe to disclose valuation.

 

The point was that a lot of Lambert's buys are worth more than what we bought them for, not whether or not we'd be able to sell them now.

 

Yet you didn't specify that in your original post.

[Morpheus]

 

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

 

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

[Mantis]

Yet you didn't specify that in your original post.

 

Yes I did actually. I made no mention of whether or not anyone would want them now.

[Keyblade]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

 

The same club that released him in the first place right? 

[samjp26]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

Doesn't matter if he discovered him or not, the fact is if it wasn't for Lambert, we would have lost Guzan for free to most likely a team in the MLS.

Lambert has turned Guzan from a written off 2nd keeper who was allowed to leave the club into our 1st keeper and an extremely valuable asset who we could probably fetch a good £10m at least for if sold.

[Big_John_10]

I'm not sure how anyone can confidently say the vast majority of signings are worth more.

[VillaCas]

 

 

However what I would ask did we really need to purchase Kozak, Bowery, Helenius, or Tonev, when we already had Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Bent, Fonz, and Albrighton at the club? Are any of the former better than the latter?

 

You've set up a false argument here - It's not an either/or is it!  When filling the front three or four positions you obviously need a mix first team regulars and back-up, at least two for each position.  In terms of pecking order when players are playing to form, I would imagine it's something like Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Kozak, Tonev, Albrighton, Bowery, Helenius.   Bent and Fonz are surplus to requirements, in that their style of play does not fit what is needed

 

Bennett has also been a poor signing and with the exception of Benteke and Vlaar have the rest of Lambert's signings really shone? Not really since we've already had our flirtation with relegation under Lambert's stewardship and are by no means safe from another this season especially how we are playing at the moment.

 

Bennett had a difficult first season in a team fighting for its life. I think he may yet come good, we'll see. Did I expect PL's signings to "shine"? I suppose it depends on how you classify that, I expected them to come in and do a job for us - Westwood, Bacuna, Lowton, Luna have all won MOTM votes from the fans so it appears that they shone that day. Can you expect players on less than £10k a week to consistently 'shine' in a league where the average players are earning 5 times that? I wouldn't have thought so!

 

You also can't say with any degree of certainty that we would have been relegated using members of the bomb squad as probably the worst manager we've ever had failed to relegate us using those players.

 

Just my opinion - what I do know is that during the second half of the season under McL they were collecting less than .8 of a point per game (equivalent to 30 points for the season) - I saw nothing to suggest that they had it in them to turn that around. Interesting to see that not one of them has gone on to any success elsewhere, with many struggling to win a place in very poor sides. Fortunately Lambert had the balls to clear the decks and bring in a completely fresh squad utilising minimal resources.

 

Moreover,  just because Lambert bought 16 young players that doesn't mean that those players were the best we could have purchased in the 1m-2m range which seems to be the overriding excuse on here for our lack of quality in the squad.

 

It's not just the low fees that were a limitation but also the low wages we could afford to pay. You seem to be mixing up excuses with reasons - usually when you spend more money, you get better quality

 

The players signed were Lambert's choices but who is to say that another manager wouldn't have made better choices with the same restrictions or indeed allocated the budget better by keeping and playing a system that would have better suited the players already here? 

 

Heskey? Warnock? Hutton? Ireland? Collins? Dunne? Holman? That's £350k a week right there! I can't think of a system which would have got anything out of the "players already here" - maybe play 20 of them all together.  I think the general consensus is that keeping them was never an option anyway (good!)

 

Could another manager have found a better 16 players - maybe, but we will never know.  Personally, I think we have got tremendous value for money with a mix of mainly U21 and Full Internationals and a few prospects thrown in. 

 

[VillaCas]

I'm not sure how anyone can confidently say the vast majority of signings are worth more.

 

Who knows? It's early days yet so unlikely that they have all appreciated in value but personally I don't think we will lose money on any of them when we eventually come to sell them

[AndyM3000]

We paid hardly anything for most players so once they have come in and played a couple of season in the prem they are always going to be worth more just due to that experience.

[Butterfingers]

I don't think there's a Villa fan out there who would deny that Yorke doesn't dive. The after match conversations during his time here would usually centre around the fact that such a quality player did not need to do this-Especially whilst wearing a Villa shirt.

 

I'd take the Lambert comments with a pinch of salt-He's probably telling our lads not to give the clearing in the woods half a chance to cheat

[Butterfingers]

I think any player who moves from abroad & cuts it in the PL will increase in value.

 

Bowrey & Hellenius were both bought on the basis that they show/showed potential. Time is on their side still & arguing the toss over what they would fetch in todays market is pointless given the peanuts we paid for them.

 

I don't remember too many (if any complaints when we paid £4mil for Okore?

 

Sylla, KEA, Kovak, Luna & Bacuna would all go for more than we paid for them. Newly promoted teams are always trying to buy players who are proven in the prem.

 

IMO Kovak will cut it in this league. More goals from open play with less mins on the pitch than Benteke as well.

 

Bacuna is the one where the jury is out. I read a lot of fans saying "push him further forward & play Lowton behind him" I'm not convinced midfield is his best position. He was a revelation when first played at right back, has had a few hiccups lately& if he can consistently play like he did when he first broke into the team, he will be some player.

[Morpheus]

 

Yet you didn't specify that in your original post.

 

Yes I did actually. I made no mention of whether or not anyone would want them now.

 

Which proves my point that you didn't specify anything.

[markavfc40]

 

Sylla, KEA, Kovak, Luna & Bacuna would all go for more than we paid for them. Newly promoted teams are always trying to buy players who are proven in the prem.

 

I agree newly promoted clubs are often looking for players proven in the Prem but none of those players you mention have proved anyhting.

KEA cost 2 mill and will be 29 in a couple of weeks. Given how he has performed for us in the main over the last 18 months I'd be surprised if we got 2 mill for him.

As for the rest of them they haven't played enough games to be considered to have proven themselves either way - good or bad. I personally think Luna will prove to be decent and the same goes for Kovak.Bacuna if pushed further forward will do well for us but is showing himself to be a liability at full back. Sylla looks out of his depth as often as he does OK and I think this will be a big 6 months for him coming up.

 

You can certainly say that Benteke and Westwood will have increased in value and possibly Vlaar and Lowton.

Edited December 14, 2013 by markavfc40

[Mantis]

I'm seeing multiple talk about somebody called "Kovak" but I've never heard of him. Who is he?

 

 

 

Yet you didn't specify that in your original post.
 

Yes I did actually. I made no mention of whether or not anyone would want them now.

 

Which proves my point that you didn't specify anything.

 

Because it wasn't part of my point! If somebody doesn't mention something then chances are whatever that something is isn't part of their point. I don't need to make my point and then lay out all of the things which are not included in my point.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Mantis

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

Doesn't matter if he discovered him or not, the fact is if it wasn't for Lambert, we would have lost Guzan for free to most likely a team in the MLS.

Lambert has turned Guzan from a written off 2nd keeper who was allowed to leave the club into our 1st keeper and an extremely valuable asset who we could probably fetch a good £10m at least for if sold.

 

I'm only disagreeing with you on the point was he a Lambert signing in the way that typifies his other signings at the club and no he wasn't.

 

Lambert was also probably informed by the coaching staff at Villa Park of Guzan's abilities and his availability and brought him back due to the monitory restrictions at the club. 

Edited December 14, 2013 by Morpheus

[villan_007]

Yes he did resign him so strictly speaking yes but he wasn't scouted by Lambert and probably resigned him on the basis of information from within the club.

I have no doubts that this may be true, but it is a fact that he had left the club before Lambert brought him back. It wasn't simply a case of getting a new contract.

If it wasn't for Lambert chances are Guzan may have simply faded away into the MLS.

Don't get me wrong mate. Lambert does deserve credit for bringing Guzan back but he didn't scout or discover him and that's why I wouldn't refer to Guzan as a Lambert signing in the true sense of the word.

Doesn't matter if he discovered him or not, the fact is if it wasn't for Lambert, we would have lost Guzan for free to most likely a team in the MLS.

Lambert has turned Guzan from a written off 2nd keeper who was allowed to leave the club into our 1st keeper and an extremely valuable asset who we could probably fetch a good £10m at least for if sold.

I'm only disagreeing with you on the point was he a Lambert signing in the way that typifies his other signings at the club and no he wasn't.

 

Lambert was also probably informed by the coaching staff at Villa Park of Guzan's abilities and his availability and brought him back due to the monitory restrictions at the club.

All of the later is made up by you. If you read or watch any interviews with Lambert about guzan he actually knew all about him and couldn't understand why the club had axed him, so yes he had scouted him. I also find it strange that you think a manager who has scouted all of his signings, would go against the grain and sign a keeper recommended by the same staff that let him go??

It's nit picking to take even the slightest bit of praise from Lambert.

I can't imagine a phone call from Lambert to guzan along the lines of...hey the staff who have just let you go actually think you're pretty decent, I personally don't know anything about you but do you fancy coming back as we're skint.