Manager Paul Lambert

[Mantis]

Jol already did get sacked...

[Big_John_10]

Lambert last 38 games would have finished us 9th in last seasons table

Yes it's a shame the premier league don't allow us and only us to pick a specific period and use those points to determine where we finish in the league.

No sadly they don't.....I obviously posted that as indicative of what has been achieved in such a short time and with minimal resources - sorry if you are confused

Its a pretty pointless stat. There's clearly stats that show this year is better than last but this one doesn't add much.

They're always pointless when you don't agree with them

It's taken over a long period of time and shows that we are solidly mid-table - lets hope we can push on from there

They're pointless because you just pick a period that suits your argument.

Last season you compared the start of Lambert's year with the end of McLeish and then this year instead of doing the same you compare the start of last year with this and like for like games.

Now you're picking a specific period and comparing it to how everyone else did last year. It's pointless.

We've improved I'm not disagreeing with that.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Big_John_10

[VillaCas]

Morpheus

 

You thought that Lambert moved to fast last season and it could have got us relegated - I understand that, but he didn't get us relegated, in fact apart from an appalling run of form over Christmas we got better and better

 

You thought he should have bought less but better players - I don't know the plan around players fees and wages that was agreed when he took over but my feeling is that he was asked to shift a lot out and needed to bring a lot in 

 

I like you am unhappy at our form of late, despite the fact that we are still collecting points - but football is a game of very small margins - my hope and expectation is that as players return to full fitness, better form will follow

 

No-one thinks that our current position is a g'tee of were we will finish at the end of the season - I predicted 10th-12th and I think that still looks realistic

 

I'm hoping that we might bring in a couple of players in the window - I know for a fact that Lambert would have liked Sissoko and Kiyotake but that funds were unavailable to him - lets hope that similar players are on his radar for January

 

 

[VillaCas]

I would like us to stick with PL for 3 and half years, no matter what, and see where we are then.  If I had my way that would be that.

 

But ok then, some clearly want rid now, and for others he is on borrowed time.  So lets follow the logic there.  You would agree presumably for that reasoning to remain purposeful you should have someone better lined up.  If you haven't then those views just endanger the Club (i.e. if we all suddenly joined in there would be a fan base calling for the managers head which would inevitably cause turmoil all over again etc etc )

 

So as a matter of interest, who would you appoint and what about them makes you sure enough they would do not only a better short term job, (ie keep improving results, league position, and the now apparently all important 'quality' of football) but also better for the reality, the long term (i.e. managable wages, promising players etc)

 

I mean, if Jol gets sacked tomorow you could practically write the managerial merry go round shortlist now - but what would any of them have sufficient merit that would be sufficient to see our guy booted out for them to come in ?

 

Now, no saying 'Southampton found a guy', or whatever.

 

Who ?

 

And why ?

 

If not - I respectfully suggest that it would be in the interests of the Club to refrain from pulling down the guy in the Chair.  I mean, as I said, if we all joined in ......................?

 

Good luck getting an answer on this on TT

[HeyAnty]

Lets just be done with it and have a 'Stefan moans at fans thread' and just put them all in there.

Seconded.

[VillaCas]

 

 

 

 

 

Lambert last 38 games would have finished us 9th in last seasons table

Yes it's a shame the premier league don't allow us and only us to pick a specific period and use those points to determine where we finish in the league.

No sadly they don't.....I obviously posted that as indicative of what has been achieved in such a short time and with minimal resources - sorry if you are confused

Its a pretty pointless stat. There's clearly stats that show this year is better than last but this one doesn't add much.

They're always pointless when you don't agree with them

It's taken over a long period of time and shows that we are solidly mid-table - lets hope we can push on from there

They're pointless because you just pick a period that suits your argument.

Last season you compared the start of Lambert's year with the end of McLeish and then this year instead of doing the same you compare the start of last year with this and like for like games.

Now you're picking a specific period and comparing it to how everyone else did last year. It's pointless.

We've improved I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

 

...you just don't like the facts and stats that prove that.....got it

[Morpheus]

 

 

Morpheus, not sure what happened, I was posting on your reply and then it said edit.  I assume you or someone deleted it?  I would like to know what you see as the solution to our clear problems on the pitch.  

 

Again, I want to be clear.  I see signs of positives mixed with some clear negatives and I suspect that the solutions I see are different, but I would like to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify 'Blue Sky' argument is concentrating on the positive without also acknowledging the negative.

 

I don't need your condescention thanks

 

I tend to focus on the big picture and the long term - generally I think in those terms we are looking good and only an idiot could claim that the trend is not an improving one

 

Game by game and in the short term I can see plenty of negatives around individual players and around particular games, but I tend not to focus too much on that

 

It seems to me that your whole exsitance here is built on anti-Lambert negativity and I can understand that as he gradually turns things round that threatens your position

 

Ha, ha. You acuse me of being condescending and then imply that that i'm an idiot.

 

In the above highlighted text you've just described the 'Blue Sky' argument perfectly.

 

Your third point is post on poster and i will let the mods deal with it.

 

 

Pot.  Kettle.

 

Morpheus, if I may ask.  What do you see as the solution to our problems?  For what it's worth, I do see many distressing negatives, but I also see some of the positives that you label as "blue sky" and others have labelled as "papering over the cracks."  I truly would like to hear what, in your view, is the solution to the deficiencies on the pitch.

 

 

Actually a very decent question.

 

My 'Blue Sky' comments were mainly directed at those who post without any objectivity. For example quote where we are positioned at the moment without recognising that our football has been awful to watch and that we have indeed been fortunate on occasion to get the results that we have. I have also seen the same posters post in such a way that our current mid table position is going to be definitive for the rest of the season when the same argument was rubbished last season by those very same posters.

 

I have been accused on here of posting in exactly the opposite way of 'Blue Sky' but actually taking all of my posts in context those who have read then properly and without bias will have seen that i have commended the manager when he has done well and indeed praised several of the players including most recently Kozak and Vlaar so those accusations are misguided, ill-informed and for the most part, just ignorant.

 

You asked for my solutions. I think we should have spent less on numbers and more on quality and maybe not alienated all those that the manager did until such time that those players purchased were up to speed with the Premiership and we could have then replaced the remaining players of the bomb squad . I do think change was needed. There's no doubt about that but it should have been more gradual and less of a shock which very nearly got us relegated.

 

Our present style of football has been dire and although the results don't show that some of the stats do and i cannot see us being successful playing the way we are at the moment. You only have to look at what type of football gains more success and it isn't hoof.

 

Of course the manager shouldn't take all of the blame for that as he has had a limited budget to play with but i will say it again it is his allocation of that budget which worries me the most and a lack of technical ability in the players he has purchased apart from Benteke.t

 

Thanks for re-posting.  Not sure why I missed it.  But I am pleasantly surprised by your response.  Not really unreasonable at all in my opinion. 

 

My only real disagreement, and it's just emphasis not black and white, IMO.  I do think Lambert is doing one thing right in trying to build the team and that is not paying silly money for young talent and hope they become something special.  I'm not sure i would use the phrase that he has gone for quantity rather than quaity, but I think I understand what you are getting at with that.  But I think any player is a risk.  Some great names are signed and never really come good for inability to adjust to the league, the speed, injury, too big to try, etc.  I think the clear strategy of the club is that all players are a risk, so don't spend big amounts on those risks.  Sometimes you get a great payoff.  But when you lose on an investment, at least it's not as big a loss.  I liked MON as a player manager but I think he spent silly money on his risks and created the financial problems we're still paying for.  (not completely his fault.  somebody let him... or trusted him... that it was the right way.)

 

Surely there's got to be a compromise where you pay small sums for yet unproven talent AND occaisionally risk larger sums of money when the talent is proven in the league.

 

As far as keeping some of them longer until the youngsters came good, makes some sense in the short term on the pitch, I'll give you that.  But I think the wage bill for player that showed up when they felt like it was a problem that needed to be cut out swift and clean.  I have no patience for players that can't be bothered, whether they are named Bent or Benteke, or Ireland.

 

I may be the only one who thinks this, but I'd rather watch a player work holes in his socks with moderate skill than be half-arsed and score a hat-trick.  Of course, we'd all rather him do both.

 

Thanks for your reply.  I'm one of those that reads lots of posts, but rarely pay much attention to who posts them unless I think it brilliant or maddening.  So, I'll admit I had not seen the posts where you praised players.  Sorry.

 

Again, not trying to be a difficult, but I was more interested in what you would change "on the pitch"  do I assume you would like an approach that emphasized possession and movement of the ball, and less long ball?  If so, I agree, but I think our tactics are dictated by the abilities of the playing staff.  So in that case, it does go back to the deals we have or have not made for players.  Do I understand you reasonbly well?

 

I wish more experienced posters would consider being as objective as yourself.

 

Yep a pass and move game which we did so well in certain games in our run in last season. I just can't believe how stagnant we've become this season through our midfield and forward line after showing last season that we at least can make a good fist of that style of football even though some of our players are so limited in technical ability. Movement off the ball can cover up a multitude of sins and as one poster said in his opinion it wouldn't matter if we buy that elusive AM in January because he would have no-one to pass to (lack of current movement ahead of the ball).

 

Yep type of players signed has possibly restricted tactics but we were able to do it last season. Maybe Lambert tightening our defence has had an adverse affect on our overall style of play (less movement upfront and too much tracking back) and thats why our forward line is really struggling this season? 

 

Yet i have to again commend the manager and his coaching team for getting Vlaar playing better. Last season i slated Vlaar for not taking enough responsibility on crosses coming into our box but this season he has been terrific and probably the main reason why we are conceding less. 

[VillaCas]

I wish more experienced posters would consider being as objective as yourself.

 

LOL

[Villarocker]

It would be absolutely mental to get rid of Paul Lambert. Those wanting or hoping for it need to sit down, calm down and then wake the f*** up!

Nobody, and I really believe this, could come in and do a better job. We're in 11th place having spent very little money on rebuilding almost an entire squad. He's had to do this with very little in terms of salaries and on the back of two of the worst managers we've ever had.

I've had my times on here of questioning his team selections and tactics but there's no way I would like to see someone else here, not even Mourinho, Moyes or Wenger. We've got the best for where and what we are right now. He's halfway through his contract and we need to give the man time to go about his job. He still has players to offload and bring in. He still has players to develop.

The football may not have been as pretty as it was towards the end of last season but the results have been far better than what they were up until Christmas last season. Who knows, maybe the second half of the season can see us play like we did in the second half of last season. Or, maybe even better!

The only way we should even contemplate sacking Lambert is if we're in the bottom three and looking at relegation. Not for one or two weeks either, I mean really in the mire and the players looking like they don't want to play for him. Whilst that's not happening, I am more than happy to have Paul Lambert managing the club I love.

Give him time and the chance to clear out the rest of the deadwood and bring in more of his own signings. Let's see where we are in another couple of seasons, who knows, we may all be pleasantly surprised.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

 

FWIW, I see plenty of negatives. I have a right moan at games (not really outwardly at the players, more at the ref ), but it's about stepping back and having a look at the bigger picture. That's the concept that a few seem to be unable to grasp.

 

I can stand here and list off loads of things yesterday that pissed me off. And I came home from the game ticked off. But then, I looked at the league table, looked at our points haul, looked at what we're doing and I can see forward movement. As VF1970 put it nicely, the negative is very short term and the positive is seemingly more long term. Those who are willing to wait for success seem to focus more on positives and those who want success now (for want of a better expression) and lack the patience seem to see the negatives more prominently.

 

All in all, it's a fascinating look at human psychology and how we all see things.

The last time we won a prominent trophy was 1996. How long do you suggest that patience lasts?

 

 

Pathetic

 

This is the Lambert thread so obviously peolpe here are talking about patience with Lambert

 

If your issues are with what's happened in the last 17 years choose a different thread

 

Not exactly correct and i think you need to read the post you are referring to again as there have been many references elsewhere in this thread not directly relating to Lambert.    

 

 

So basically it's Lambert fault we havent won anything since 96 - as I said pathetic

 

 

 

 

 

My 'Blue Sky' comments were mainly directed at those who post without any objectivity.

 

I imagine it is frustrating all these other losers who are posting without the clarity of thought and objectivity that shines through in your every post

 

 

 

 

I wish more experienced posters would consider being as objective as yourself.

 

LOL

 

And these comments are from someone who has referred to my posts as being pathetic.

[srsmithusa]

Agreed.  It's a pleasure to have a conversation.  I agree that Vlaar has stepped up.  And I agree I would like to see more movement and passing.  The next question then, in my mind is, what's missing from the midfield personnel we have?  I think Westwood needs time and confidence and could develop. 

[Butterfingers]

Stefan you are spot on. so is Kwan. When I joined this site last year one of my first posts was to outlay what was a long-term (5 year) plan. It's only 18 months old. You don't make the progress many expect in that time unless you throw huge money at it - which Villa aren't. So the whole things takes time. You buy young players who are cheaper, you work with them and you try and make them better. That is where we are at. Are we better than last season? Yes, I'd say so. Will we be better this time next year? Yes, we will be. It's slow, I know, but that is the way it is. As someone else mentioned, the team is tenth. The defence is much better than it was which is a huge bonus and hopefully when two of three of the lads further up the park hit form again we'll be back up and running. I'd suggest tenth is as high as we might get this season so maybe it's worth enjoying the position right now!

Disagree

10th may be as good as it gets & will be acceptable. If we can string a couple of back to back wins/find a bit of consistency/strikers return to form then 8th is attainable. Puts more pressure on the management admittedly but I don't think we should be aiming for a comfort zone when there is clearly more to come from the players we have.

Newcastle have some good players and are ahead of us but that's where I think we should be aiming at present.

[Robbie09]

Stefan you are spot on. so is Kwan. When I joined this site last year one of my first posts was to outlay what was a long-term (5 year) plan. It's only 18 months old. You don't make the progress many expect in that time unless you throw huge money at it - which Villa aren't. So the whole things takes time. You buy young players who are cheaper, you work with them and you try and make them better. That is where we are at. Are we better than last season? Yes, I'd say so. Will we be better this time next year? Yes, we will be. It's slow, I know, but that is the way it is. As someone else mentioned, the team is tenth. The defence is much better than it was which is a huge bonus and hopefully when two of three of the lads further up the park hit form again we'll be back up and running. I'd suggest tenth is as high as we might get this season so maybe it's worth enjoying the position right now!

 

Sums it up for me. We're not playing well but we're 11th with room for improvement. Anyone who thought or expects better in such a short time is either misguided or far too optimistic. The model PL is applying will take alot longer than 18 months to bear fruit.

[vandaq]

Who here wants him sacked? Be honest

[Morpheus]

Agreed.  It's a pleasure to have a conversation.  I agree that Vlaar has stepped up.  And I agree I would like to see more movement and passing.  The next question then, in my mind is, what's missing from the midfield personnel we have?  I think Westwood needs time and confidence and could develop. 

Balance between creativity and dynamism which is needed in the engine room of any successful team and I'm not sure if Westwood is one or the other although I sincerely hope he can be the link between both which would be great.

[Robbie09]

Who here wants him sacked? Be honest

 

Not me. Fully behind him.

[LordSepulchrave]

Fergie's a free agent.

[Morpheus]

Who here wants him sacked? Be honest

For me he is a limited manager at present and the only thing stopping me from calling for his head again is the way he got the team playing at the end of last season. I had hoped that would be repeated this season but although the results have been better the performances have taken a nose dive.

 

Hopefully that won't continue and the manager can grow with the team so I'm prepared to give him more time if we don't slip back into trouble again but I'm still very unsure whether he has what it takes to build a successful dynasty here?

[VillanousOne]

I think there are two many variables at the moment - too many unknowns.

 

I think come January we'll have a more accurate idea of how we are progressing, presuming we don't get lots of injuries.

[VillaCas]

 

Who here wants him sacked? Be honest

For me he is a limited manager at present and the only thing stopping me from calling for his head again is the way he got the team playing at the end of last season. I had hoped that would be repeated this season but although the results have been better the performances have taken a nose dive.

 

Hopefully that won't continue and the manager can grow with the team so I'm prepared to give him more time if we don't slip back into trouble again but I'm still very unsure whether he has what it takes to build a successful dynasty here?

 

 

"I'm prepared to give him more time"   Haha - Your hubris knows no bounds

 

When asked who would be better and available for us you always weasel out of the question

 

Last season you were advising signing Berbatov and Adam and lobbying for the return of Bent - fine job they're doing

 

The only limits on Lambert are the financial ones placed on him by Lerner.

 

We're fortunate indeed that you are not running the club