Manager Paul Lambert

[Macca1888]

 

 

Agree with you on that but not many if any CL teams were prepared to meet our valuation of the player even after the season he had which would put us in the minority of one club who currently evaluates him as a CL player at the moment.

So? All that means is that no one was willing to meet our valuation last summer - it certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough for a CL team because I think we all know he is comfortably good enough.

 

The point is though that no other CL team thought he was good enough to pay our valuation and with escalating transfer fees, that i feel is a telling factor.

 

It may well be that CL teams want to see more of him before making the financial committment or, our perceived valuation of him is a little biased?

 

No.  We have a valuation for all of our players - if they are to be sold our valuation has to be met.  That is how we operate as a strong business and a strong football club.  Who on earth gives a monkey's what a "CL team" thinks of our players or how much they value our players?  If Aston Villa are to continue to grow and develop once more as a club the only thing that matters is what Aston Villa thinks. 

[Mantis]

 

Thing is, people are moaning about the win at Norwich, which is just utterly bizarre.

 

 

Not really, we were shit, just they were shitter. We were also shit vs Newcastle. 

 

Even Lambert couldn't muster his usual "I thought the lads were great today" speech. 

 

Look at the bigger picture if we play like we did against Norwich we'll lose most of our games this season. 

 

I do take into account what HH said about fitness/injuries however. That would go some way to explaining it. Norwich were not trying though, they've got real problems it would seem. 

 

 

We won though - that is the bigger picture.

 

 

 

 

Agree with you on that but not many if any CL teams were prepared to meet our valuation of the player even after the season he had which would put us in the minority of one club who currently evaluates him as a CL player at the moment.

So? All that means is that no one was willing to meet our valuation last summer - it certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough for a CL team because I think we all know he is comfortably good enough.

 

The point is though that no other CL team thought he was good enough to pay our valuation and with escalating transfer fees, that i feel is a telling factor.

 

It may well be that CL teams want to see more of him before making the financial committment or, our perceived valuation of him is a little biased?

 

 

As I said, that doesn't mean anything other than the fact that nobody was willing to meet our valuation. Pretty sure if we had him up for sale for £15m plenty of CL clubs would be queuing up for him, and we both know that he'd be just fine leading the line in a CL team.

[Morpheus]

Yep for once we're in total agreement that he could lead the line in many of the CL teams but thats not the perception yet of the CL teams that would want to buy him. It will be interesting to see though if he continues to repeat the form of last season whether our valuation will increase and whether CL teams will want to pay that increase when they weren't prepared to pay 25m for him in the summer? Thats what i meant by my biased comment. We may just price him out of a move and if that were to happen how would he react?

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

Agree with you on that but not many if any CL teams were prepared to meet our valuation of the player even after the season he had which would put us in the minority of one club who currently evaluates him as a CL player at the moment.

So? All that means is that no one was willing to meet our valuation last summer - it certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough for a CL team because I think we all know he is comfortably good enough.

 

The point is though that no other CL team thought he was good enough to pay our valuation and with escalating transfer fees, that i feel is a telling factor.

 

It may well be that CL teams want to see more of him before making the financial committment or, our perceived valuation of him is a little biased?

 

No.  We have a valuation for all of our players - if they are to be sold our valuation has to be met.  That is how we operate as a strong business and a strong football club.  Who on earth gives a monkey's what a "CL team" thinks of our players or how much they value our players?  If Aston Villa are to continue to grow and develop once more as a club the only thing that matters is what Aston Villa thinks. 

 

Thats actually an interesting sumation of the way we work in the transfer market and it is substantiated by the way in which we conducted some of our previous transfers such as Barry and Downing. However it doesn't always work that way and there might have to be a compromise put in place depending upon the circumstances. 

 

I'm also not so sure yet that we have reached the status of being 'a strong business' and a strong football club' but that is the ultimate goal and i suppose a debate which should be discussed elsewhere.  

[Mantis]

I don't see how the "perception" of CL clubs is relevant? All it shows is that they weren't willing to meet our valuation.

[Morpheus]

I don't see how the "perception" of CL clubs is relevant? All it shows is that they weren't willing to meet our valuation.

The perception is relevant when they weren't prepared to pay the fee. Past history has shown us that if a club wants a player they will over pay for the player to get him. No-one was prepared to do that and not even Spuds with their revenue from the sale of Bale.

[BOF]

The perception is relevant when they weren't prepared to pay the fee. Past history has shown us that if a club wants a player they will over pay for the player to get him. No-one was prepared to do that and not even Spuds with their revenue from the sale of Bale.

'Not even Spuds'? Who are, of course, legendarily profligate when it comes to parting with their money. Imagine them not over-spending.

[Mantis]

 

I don't see how the "perception" of CL clubs is relevant? All it shows is that they weren't willing to meet our valuation.

The perception is relevant when they weren't prepared to pay the fee. Past history has shown us that if a club wants a player they will over pay for the player to get him. No-one was prepared to do that and not even Spuds with their revenue from the sale of Bale.

 

 

So?

 

[Big_John_10]

might just finish around mid-table!

If this quote doesn't show how shit Lerner is nothing will.

Hairy Hands is spot on, this squad might finish mid table and that would be good.

It's quite depressing thinking how much we've dropped.

I notice HH mention the level of backing Lambert's had again. And people still defend the owner.

[Isa]

Agree BJ10. To think people complained that Ellis was unambitious back when finishing in the top half was the absolute minimum expectation. We really have dropped several rungs down the ladder under Lerner's ownership.

[Mantis]

Great, this again...

[BOF]

I'll admit I find your posts hard to figure out BJ because they swing from being quite positive at times to being very negative at other times. Anyhoo, regarding your post above, I think a midtable finish would be progress this season considering what we've gone through over the past few years and considering the hole we've been digging ourselves out of (yes, one created by a more naïve Lerner).

It would represent a move away from the danger zone and a position of stability that we could hopefully progress further from, both in terms of league position (obviously) but also in terms of sustainable squad (read - wages) growth. A midtable finish with this group of players would be vindication for the direction Lambert and Lerner have taken the club, in what at that time would be the past 2 seasons.

A midtable finish this season also doesn't necessarily mean that midtable is the be-all and end-all of what Lerner and Lambert's ambitions are. Now some would argue - probably with justification - that midtable IS all Lerner wants, based on recent financial evidence, but I don't think it's right to infer that just from someone saying that we "might just finish around midtable!" that we'll have somehow reached our ultimate goal. I just think that this season, it's the target that should be set.

[sharkyvilla]

think people moaning about 2nd half are forgetting we didnt have our 2 most dangerous players for most of it or in Benteke case for entire 2nd half

Exactly, the second half smacked of a team so desperate to hang on for a clean sheet having not had one in ages that they were lucky to get away with it. But just hanging on will give them confidence to do it more comfortably next time, especially if they have the pace of Gabby and Benteke up front as an outlet, which like you say we were denied.

[Butterfingers]

 

think people moaning about 2nd half are forgetting we didnt have our 2 most dangerous players for most of it or in Benteke case for entire 2nd half

Exactly, the second half smacked of a team so desperate to hang on for a clean sheet having not had one in ages that they were lucky to get away with it. But just hanging on will give them confidence to do it more comfortably next time, especially if they have the pace of Gabby and Benteke up front as an outlet, which like you say we were denied.

 

 

Gabby & CB off, Westwood, Lowton & Okore not even starting. That's half our first choice line up not even playing.

 

Would anyone have been disappointed with 6 points from these 1st five games when the fixtures first came out?

[Richard]

I'll admit I find your posts hard to figure out BJ because they swing from being quite positive at times to being very negative at other times.

Not sure I agree.  I certainly dont see that in his posts.  I think what John does is post on each subject about Villa on its own merits and to me that's a pretty consistent approach.  That is,  not everything at the club deserves the same response.

 

Now I'm not saying I agree with everything John posts (I agree with a lot and he does come closest to my views on a large number of areas) but I can certainly see consistency in his approach

 

On the manager I'd say at this point he has come round to a positive way of thinking from where he was last season. And thats understandable.  I'd say last season was a troubling season for us.  I've had faith in Paul since day 0 and so have a few others,  for some like John its taken some evidence.

 

On the squad similar,  i think John would like to see more investment but generally he seems positive on the playing staff in the main

 

It is the area of owner where John has issues,  and again for me that is entirely understandable.  I am warming a bit more to Lerner than I was some time ago.  Sure I'd like a better (for that read richer if you must,  someone prepared to invest money to a level to make us competitive at the top end is how I'd prefer to say it) owner one less prone to Mcleish esque mistakes but for the club at the minute I am warming because we cannot afford to compete and so this current strategy is basically the best fit for us.

 

Where I would say John and I differ is that John is maybe working under the strategy that the club must be at the top end of the table and that is where our ambitions should be.  I have settled for the fact that we wont be any time soon so dont get too frustrated by comments like midtable for this season as for me mid table is about the best that we,  at the current stage of development,  should be aiming.  Sure I'd like 6 - 8 and with a fair wind who knows we may get it,  but I guess where I am now is passive acceptance (ahhh my old friend its been a while) of our status.

 

Where I share Johns frustrations is under Ellis we would never accept that,  under this main we have done.

 

What I am trying to say is I think John takes a horses for courses approach to his opinion,  and that seems sensible enough for me

[Morpheus]

 

The perception is relevant when they weren't prepared to pay the fee. Past history has shown us that if a club wants a player they will over pay for the player to get him. No-one was prepared to do that and not even Spuds with their revenue from the sale of Bale.

'Not even Spuds'? Who are, of course, legendarily profligate when it comes to parting with their money. Imagine them not over-spending.

 

I didn't say that Spurs were extravagant with their money. If you read my post correctly i stated the revenue from the Bale sale which they spent something like 26m on 28 year old Soldado when they could have spent less on 22 year old Benteke. Personally i feel 26m on Soldado is overpriced with no sell on value and thats exactly my point. They overpaid for the player they wanted.

[Big_John_10]

I'll admit I find your posts hard to figure out BJ because they swing from being quite positive at times to being very negative at other times.

In regards to our owner and how he's run the club I don't think my opinion has changed much.

I'm more positive about Lambert than I was, I like the signings that we made in the summer and I'm more positive that this season will be better than last.

But it still hits hard when you realise that maybe finishing midtable is what we now have to accept. I completely agree that it will be good to finish midtable but it doesn't stop it be a disappointment that this is where we are as a club right now.

I'm not positive for the future as I think we have an owner that will always hold us back in one way.

[Big_John_10]

I'll admit I find your posts hard to figure out BJ because they swing from being quite positive at times to being very negative at other times.

Not sure I agree. I certainly dont see that in his posts. I think what John does is post on each subject about Villa on its own merits and to me that's a pretty consistent approach. That is, not everything at the club deserves the same response.

Now I'm not saying I agree with everything John posts (I agree with a lot and he does come closest to my views on a large number of areas) but I can certainly see consistency in his approach

On the manager I'd say at this point he has come round to a positive way of thinking from where he was last season. And thats understandable. I'd say last season was a troubling season for us. I've had faith in Paul since day 0 and so have a few others, for some like John its taken some evidence.

On the squad similar, i think John would like to see more investment but generally he seems positive on the playing staff in the main

It is the area of owner where John has issues, and again for me that is entirely understandable. I am warming a bit more to Lerner than I was some time ago. Sure I'd like a better (for that read richer if you must, someone prepared to invest money to a level to make us competitive at the top end is how I'd prefer to say it) owner one less prone to Mcleish esque mistakes but for the club at the minute I am warming because we cannot afford to compete and so this current strategy is basically the best fit for us.

Where I would say John and I differ is that John is maybe working under the strategy that the club must be at the top end of the table and that is where our ambitions should be. I have settled for the fact that we wont be any time soon so dont get too frustrated by comments like midtable for this season as for me mid table is about the best that we, at the current stage of development, should be aiming. Sure I'd like 6 - 8 and with a fair wind who knows we may get it, but I guess where I am now is passive acceptance (ahhh my old friend its been a while) of our status.

Where I share Johns frustrations is under Ellis we would never accept that, under this main we have done.

What I am trying to say is I think John takes a horses for courses approach to his opinion, and that seems sensible enough for me

Haha

You seem to know me pretty well by now Richard.

[Dodgyknees]

Great, this again...

Better than proclaiming we will be ok in two years once the players have bedded in. Or it might be two years after that, or another two, or another two.

Depends how long the wool can be pulled over.

[Davkaus]

Does he have a tactic that doesn't involve hoofing it up to a bigman? Turns out it's a particularly poor tactic when the big man isn't Benteke. A year in, even on the rare occasions we win, the football is **** woeful.