U.S. Politics

[StefanAVFC]

16 minutes ago, villakram said:

It's gonna be a fun weekend.

Memo contents, as expected, do not look good for pre-election behavior of FBI/DoJ.

Eh?

There's no new info. Page was under surveillance before the FISA warrant was extended, and the dossier (still not unproven and originally paid for by the GOP to halt Trump's candidacy) was used as a reason to extend.

The memo basically says "Suspicious looking guy, who keeps acting suspicious was investigated again".

Absolute nothing worth attacking the FBI/DoJ here about. It's not a smoking gun, and it's just a pre-text for Trump to fire Rosenstein, or do something ridiculous like disband the FBI (which was led by a Republican for years and is currently led by one) 

"Pre-election" behaviour - just like when the FBI reopened the Hillary investigation days before the election? Allegations of bias against Republicans are absurd. Basically, Republican Trump Administration releases memo written by Republican Trump Administration officials alleging Republican justice department and Republican FBI have treated Republican Trump Administration unfairly; to be used as justification for Republican Trump Administration to shut down Republican FBI investigation into Republican Trump Administration.

Edited February 2, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[villakram]

17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Eh?

There's no new info. Page was under surveillance before the FISA warrant was extended, and the dossier (still not unproven and originally paid for by the GOP to halt Trump's candidacy) was used as a reason to extend.

The memo basically says "Suspicious looking guy, who keeps acting suspicious was investigated again".

Absolute nothing worth attacking the FBI/DoJ here about. It's not a smoking gun, and it's just a pre-text for Trump to fire Rosenstein, or do something ridiculous like disband the FBI (which was led by a Republican for years and is currently led by one) 

"Pre-election" behaviour - just like when the FBI reopened the Hillary investigation days before the election? Allegations of bias against Republicans are absurd. Basically, Republican Trump Administration releases memo written by Republican Trump Administration officials alleging Republican justice department and Republican FBI have treated Republican Trump Administration unfairly; to be used as justification for Republican Trump Administration to shut down Republican FBI investigation into Republican Trump Administration.

There is also the part where Steele explicitly tells an agent that he is incredibly biased against Trump. Withholding this information from the FISA court can be interpreted quite negatively. 

Comey re-opened the investigation because he said under oath during congressional testimony that he would alert them to any new developments. Hence, he would be personally liable. He basically accidentally completely fooked himself as he had no reason to believe at that time that anything else would crop up. Pretty unfortunate really.

It has now come out that the FBI became aware of the contents of the pedophile Weiner's laptop 4/5 weeks prior to Comey making his statement and that Comey did not become aware of this until shortly before his statement. As of yet, there is no indication whatsoever of impropriety by Comey, though the same cannot be said for others in his org. 

You can hate Trump, but casually dismissing the contents of this is naive. The idea of the state security apparatus involving itself in the democratic process is alarming, and should be investigated, lest a very dangerous precedent is set. You do realize that the current person in control of said apparatus is Donald Trump, right?

[StefanAVFC]

29 minutes ago, villakram said:

There is also the part where Steele explicitly tells an agent that he is incredibly biased against Trump. Withholding this information from the FISA court can be interpreted quite negatively. 

WOAH WOAH WOAH. Stop press. A spy, who was engaged by the GOP to obtain information, compiled a dossier on Trump that shows that Trump is a Russian asset, shows bias against him being elected president? I. am. shocked. Absolutely gobsmacked.

29 minutes ago, villakram said:

You can hate Trump, but casually dismissing the contents of this is naive. 

I am doing nothing of the sort. Page was under (FISA warrant)corrected investigation way before Trump even announced his candidacy. Which was a warranted approach because he was in bed with Russians. You would have a a point if they only started spying on Page because of the dossier and because he was part of Trump's team. But no, it was 2/3 years before. And you don't just say "HEY I WANT A FISA WARRANT" and you get one ffs.

Also the memo states:

This is a blatant attempt to attack the intelligence community to shut down the investigation into Trump and I thought you, even with your distain for the political classes and Democrats, would see through it. It's a big partisan show.

Edited February 2, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[bickster]

You saved me some typing there twice Stefan

[StefanAVFC]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/02/the-full-nunes-memo-annotated/?utm_term=.477a6e1ee6d1

Quote

After plenty of consternation -- including a public rebuke from the FBI and cries of foul from Democrats -- the GOP memo on the Russia investigation has been released.

The full memo was crafted by Republican staffers to House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) and alleges surveillance abuses by law enforcement against former Trump campaign aide Carter Page. GOP members of the committee voted to release it on a party-line vote, and the White House later signed off on that decision.

Law enforcement argued that its release jeopardizes classified information, on which the memo is based, and sets a dangerous precedent. They also contend it omits key information. Other opponents allege the memo is thinly veiled political attempt to undermine the Russia investigation, special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, who is overseeing Mueller's probe.

Below is the memo in full, along with our annotations. To see an annotation, click on the yellow, highlighted text.

 

[StefanAVFC]

And Sessions defends Rosenstein. Trump-loving rats fleeing the ship.

[StefanAVFC]

Sorry for spam but stuff keeps happening:

 

[Chindie]

The memo will do it's job. It doesn't matter the veracity or importance of what it says.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

The memo will do it's job. It doesn't matter the veracity or importance of what it says.

It already is. Trump will fire Rosenstein and appoint someone who will fire Mueller all while the MAGA-heads are screaming that the memo justifies it.

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And Sessions defends Rosenstein. Trump-loving rats fleeing the ship.

Figures that Gowdy announced he wasn't standing again, must have had enough of this nonsense

[villakram]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

WOAH WOAH WOAH. Stop press. A spy, who was engaged by the GOP to obtain information, compiled a dossier on Trump that shows that Trump is a Russian asset, shows bias against him being elected president? I. am. shocked. Absolutely gobsmacked.

I am doing nothing of the sort. Page was under FISA warrant way before Trump even announced his candidacy. Which was a warranted approach because he was in bed with Russians. You would have a a point if they only started spying on Page because of the dossier and because he was part of Trump's team. But no, it was 2/3 years before. And you don't just say "HEY I WANT A FISA WARRANT" and you get one ffs.

Also the memo states:

This is a blatant attempt to attack the intelligence community to shut down the investigation into Trump and I thought you, even with your distain for the political classes and Democrats, would see through it. It's a big partisan show.

 

"WOAH WOAH WOAH. Stop press. A spy, who was engaged by the GOP to obtain information, compiled a dossier on Trump that shows that Trump is a Russian asset, shows bias against him being elected president? I. am. shocked. Absolutely gobsmacked."

1) Factually incorrect. The Steele work was initially funded by one of the Republican presidential candidates campaigns, suspected to be the Jeb Bush campaign but as far as I am aware unknown. At a later date this research was directly funded by the campaign of Hillary Clinton and the DNC (which was financially controlled by Clinton). McCabe testified to congress that the FISA warrant would not have been approved sans this dossier. 

"I am doing nothing of the sort. Page was under FISA warrant way before Trump even announced his candidacy. Which was a warranted approach because he was in bed with Russians. You would have a a point if they only started spying on Page because of the dossier and because he was part of Trump's team. But no, it was 2/3 years before. And you don't just say "HEY I WANT A FISA WARRANT" and you get one ffs."

2) Factually incorrect. Page was not under FISA approved monitoring prior to the Trump candidacy as the first application was in Oct 2016.

Also, due to the leaks provided by Snowden, we know that the FISA court is essentially a rubber stamp or have you forgotten all about that as it doesn't suit your narrative that the FISA court is some sort of bastion of freedom, ffs indeed.

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, villakram said:

1) Factually incorrect. The Steele work was initially funded by one of the Republican presidential candidates campaigns, suspected to be the Jeb Bush campaign but as far as I am aware unknown. At a later date this research was directly funded by the campaign of Hillary Clinton and the DNC (which was financially controlled by Clinton). McCabe testified to congress that the FISA warrant would not have been approved sans this dossier. 

 

So the dossier was initially sought out and funded by somewhere within the GOP then?

Also:

It's basically one's word against another.

1 minute ago, villakram said:

2) Factually incorrect. Page was not under FISA approved monitoring prior to the Trump candidacy as the first application was in Oct 2016.

 

 

I corrected myself. He was under suspicion by the FBI WELL before he was anywhere near Trump's campaign.

Also the Republican's OWN MEMO states that Papadopoulos, not the dossier, triggered the Russia investigation.

If they're the only sticking points you have, it's clear that you're buying into this partisan nonsense.

The FBI/DoJ aren't perfect,  but when you have hyper-partisan hacks Sessions defending Rosenstein and Gowdy defending the FBI/Russia investigation then it says a lot.

I hope the Minority memo is declassified and released soon so we can get the full picture here. At the moment it stinks of any excuse to discredit the FBI, Mueller and fire Rosenstein.

[villakram]

23 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

So the dossier was initially sought out and funded by somewhere within the GOP then?

Also:

It's basically one's word against another.

I corrected myself. He was under suspicion by the FBI WELL before he was anywhere near Trump's campaign.

Also the Republican's OWN MEMO states that Papadopoulos, not the dossier, triggered the Russia investigation.

If they're the only sticking points you have, it's clear that you're buying into this partisan nonsense.

The FBI/DoJ aren't perfect,  but when you have hyper-partisan hacks Sessions defending Rosenstein and Gowdy defending the FBI/Russia investigation then it says a lot.

I hope the Minority memo is declassified and released soon so we can get the full picture here. At the moment it stinks of any excuse to discredit the FBI, Mueller and fire Rosenstein.

Yup, plenty of transcripts available and nasty colds going around so Feinstein can have plenty more accidents.

I'm not buying into it. It can't be dismissed though. The fight is not one of absolute rights and wrongs. The moves of the other must be countered and to counter them correctly they should be understood. Far to much tutting and sneering from on high has gone on. 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, villakram said:

I'm not buying into it. It can't be dismissed though. The fight is not one of absolute rights and wrongs. The moves of the other must be countered and to counter them correctly they should be understood. Far to much tutting and sneering from on high has gone on. 

That's quite the climb down from a page ago.

[andym]

So if im understanding it correctly the purpose of the memo is to discredit the Russia-Trump investigation on the basis that a FISA application for Carter Page was based on the supposedly biased Steele dossier, even though the memo itself states Papadopolous was the basis for starting the investigation.

[villakram]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

That's quite the climb down from a page ago.

This is the problem with the written word, and I suppose also the english language. You are interpreting the word "buy" in a different sense to me. I am not simply accepting the assertions of one side, sans thought. But there is plenty of evidence of shenanigans there. What is the factual information in the public domain?

This memo is as of right now factual, in the sense that it has been reviewed and released by a legally empowered investigative agency. I fully expect some form of rebuttal. How much of it will be of the anonymous said this and that variety will be interesting. I don't see how this gets the FBI/DoJ off without having a whole lot of egg on their faces when this is finished, and more careers than Comey and McCabe in the toilet.

If the transcripts back up the memo, then the SC investigation is fundamentally undermined. This is not in dispute.

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, villakram said:

This memo is as of right now factual

it is?

5 minutes ago, villakram said:

 I fully expect some form of rebuttal.

Blocked by the Majority members of the same committee.

And why is Comey's career in the toilet? Because Trump fired him? 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, andym said:

So if im understanding it correctly the purpose of the memo is to discredit the Russia-Trump investigation on the basis that a FISA application for Carter Page was based on the supposedly biased Steele dossier, even though the memo itself states Papadopolous was the basis for starting the investigation.

Stupid Watergate.

[villakram]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

it is?

Blocked by the Majority members of the same committee.

And why is Comey's career in the toilet? Because Trump fired him? 

 

Factual in the strictly legal sense. It is recorded and rendered into the public record.

Comey has been found to have leaked classified documents to the media, in an effort to play politics.

[villakram]

This is an good take on the current state of affairs, per Juan Cole.

"Who voted for warrantless surveillance of Americans? Devin Nunes and his whole committee. Almost the whole of the Republican majority in the House of Representatives and the Senate, with the exception of Libertarians like Rand Paul. Not to mention Democratic stalwarts Diane Feinstein, Mark Warner, and Claire McCaskill."

https://www.juancole.com/2018/02/spying-people-hypocrisy.html