Mantis Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) And who was our manager back then? The same guy who got you 12th in your first season back in the Premier League after back to back promotions from League 1. we conceded 2 more goals than newcastle who were 5th and we only conceded 7 more than cheese who were 6th last year. The defense was not that shocking. We concerned 13 less than Norwich who actually were shocking at the back last year Yes, but only because teams knew we were happy to sit back and defend a 1-0 deficit. Also, a team is bound to concede far less goals if they are orientated purely around defence, which is what we were like last season. Let's also not forget that Dunne and Collins were a key part of the 10/11 defence which also shipped a lot of goals. Edited December 27, 2012 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Let's also not forget that Dunne and Collins were a key part of the 10/11 defence which also shipped a lot of goals. And also a key part of the 09/10 defence which had 4th best defensive record in the league and helped us to our best ever 38 game season points total. FWIW I think we were right to get rid of Collins especially as he was in the last year of his contract and we got 2.5mill and his wages may well have gone towards bringing in Vlaar. However as things stand currently I would much rather have a defence that contained Dunne, Collins and Cuellar over Herd, Baker and Clark. Dunne is not the answer medium to long term but for now he would certainly help. I don't think he will kick a ball for us again though which makes it even more crucial that Lambert brings in an experienced, quality centre half to help out these young lads who look lost more often than not. Even in our recent excellent victories over Norwich and Liverpool we could easily have shipped far more goals as both sides had plenty of chances. Edited December 27, 2012 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) And also a key part of the 09/10 defence which had 4th best defensive record in the league and helped us to our best ever 38 game season points total. FWIW I think we were right to get rid of Collins especially as he was in the last year of his contract and we got 2.5mill and his wages may well have gone towards bringing in Vlaar. However as things stand currently I would much rather have a defence that contained Dunne, Collins and Cuellar over Herd, Baker and Clark. Dunne is not the answer medium to long term but for now he would certainly help. I don't think he will kick a ball for us again though which makes it even more crucial that Lambert brings in an experienced, quality centre half to help out these young lads who look lost more often than not. Even in our recent excellent victories over Norwich and Liverpool we could easily have shipped far more goals as both sides had plenty of chances. Yes Mark I know I've heard this stat about 50 times I don't need reminding. However, that was 3 years ago. Players go down hill or only play well under certain managers or when the team plays a certain way. Lambert obviously felt that players like Collins would not work in his team and I trust his judgement there. I have seen nothing from Dunne in the past 3 years (he was poor IMO in the second half of 09/10) to suggest that he deserves a place in the side. We need to go out and buy another Vlaar in January, not put Dunne back in the team (if he's even back from his "injury" by then). Edited December 27, 2012 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 For the first time in my entire villa supporting life i think there is a huge risk we are playing championship football next year...i have never ever seen a villa side so afraid to be on the pitch as against spurs They were like headless chickens the whole team...need a complete new midfield in januray iam afraid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 OK, I'm a "believer". We're in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Just to step in here. A team that ships 12 in two can be hardly described as improving. You are just making stuff up! I didn't say that the last two games were an improvement!!!!, My exact words were "(that over the last few weeks) despite the obvious setbacks, we are moving slowly away from the relegation zone" and we are. Three weeks ago we were 18th, today we are 16th and a win on Saturday could put us level on points with Fulham in 14th position (depending on other results) - therefore slowly moving away from the relegation zone despite two horrific results But as to improvement, I think we were improving up until the Chelsea game - a five match unbeaten run would be evidence of that. The last two games have been appalling and a massive setback. We were always going to be on a rollercoaster ride this season and IMO it will take 18-24 months before we are ready to compete towards the top half of the table 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 You are just making stuff up! I didn't say that the last two games were an improvement!!!!, My exact words were "(that over the last few weeks) despite the obvious setbacks, we are moving slowly away from the relegation zone" and we are. Three weeks ago we were 18th, today we are 16th and a win on Saturday could put us level on points with Fulham in 14th position (depending on other results) - therefore slowly moving away from the relegation zone despite two horrific results But as to improvement, I think we were improving up until the Chelsea game - a five match unbeaten run would be evidence of that. The last two games have been appalling and a massive setback. We were always going to be on a rollercoaster ride this season and IMO it will take 18-24 months before we are ready to compete towards the top half of the table We all know what Morpheus does, he puts words in others mouths to suit his negative agenda. The last 2 games has not been good enough. What is important is that we get behind the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The last 2 games has not been good enough. What is important is that we get behind the team. Getting behind the team is done at games. It doesn't need to be done on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 We all know what Morpheus does, he puts words in others mouths to suit his negative agenda. The last 2 games has not been good enough. What is important is that we get behind the team. I agree - Saturday is a vital match for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The fans generally have been brilliant backing the team and manager. Stop heaping pressure in the fans, it's time for the players to perform now and give something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The fans generally have been brilliant backing the team and manager. Stop heaping pressure in the fans, it's time for the players to perform now and give something back. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Getting behind the team is done at games. It doesn't need to be done on here. It's a tough time to be a Villa fan at the moment and I completely understand the reactions we get on this site I was shocked by the last two perfromances but for the moment I remain positive I truly believe that Paul Lambert is a top ten manager but he is being asked to do a difficult job with severely limited resources - I also think that things are going on in the background which might never be exposed but which may explain some of the decisions we have been seeing eg. Bent not even featuring on the bench in certain games, Dunne's seemingly never-ending injury etc. My personal opinion is that we are trying to cut costs far too quickly. The squad is not good enough at the moment by a good way and the fact that PL has got them out of the relegation places amazes me. I'm hoping that we sign 4 or 5 in the window and that we can have more settled second half to the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Agree with a lot of what you say. Lambert has not been backed enough from the owner but i also don't think hes done as well as i thought he would. Worst attacking team in the league and only reading have conceded more. When you're pretty much the worst in the league at attacking and defending relegation has to be a worry. Theres only one poster who believes the facts mean we shouldn't worry at all. I read that our defence is a lot worse this year because we try to win games but our attack is the worst in the league so thats not working out too well. Big improvements need to be made, not only in the squad but also by the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaspg Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 well, just because we have conceeded the most goals doesnt mean were most shit. It depends on how many games the goals have been spread out over aswell, if you let in 2 goals in every game it will combined with our low ammount of goals made give us alot more games with 0 points then if we (as in our case with chelsea etc) let in 8 goals in one games and keep it lower in the others making them winable. does that make sense? im tierd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Lambert has not been backed enough from the owner but i also don't think hes done as well as i thought he would. I'm perhaps over-protective of Lambert but I'm embarassed by what we have given him to work with - a rag-bag of overpaid, injury-prone senior professionals and problem players who for the money they cost should be much much better - Ireland, Dunne, Hutton, Warnock, Delph etc - a group of very very young players who should be eased into the team not expected to play a central role Gardner, Baker, Weimann, Carruthers etc - a group of still developing players who probably will not ultimately be able to hold down a Premier League place - Herd, Bannan, Lichaj, Albrighton Lambert had to fill a massive hole in the squad with very little cash (8 players signed for £18m) - if we are talking about mistakes, then KEA still has a lot to prove but generally I think PL has got good value for the money he has spent. I know many point to Bent's exclusion but I honestly don't think we would be a better side with Bent in the team We've seen a small improvement in PL's first half season .v. McLs last half season but nothing at all to write home about. I hope and expect that PL will be active in the window and bring in 4 or 5 new faces - how much he is allowed to spend will dictate the level of quality v potential we will get Given the above I would find it hard to think of how any manager could have done better with such poor raw materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Villa have had 4 clean sheets in the last 10 games (would be 5 but for a last gasp deflected goal scored by Liverpool). Newcastle has 2 clean sheets in 10. Fulham has 1 in 10. Southampton has 2 in 10. Sunderland have 4 in 10. West Ham have 3 in 10. When we concede, we fall apart. That is why we have conceded so many. All the goals we concede come in a few bad matches. This inconsistency is exactly what you expect from a young team, and ours is the youngest in the Premier League. We have a team with the talent to produce great results sometimes. This will be enough to keep us up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 we have the longest injury list in the league according to physioroom.com, and looking at it the majority out are players who have at some point in their career had great seasons (N'Zog, Gabby, Ireland, Bent, Vlaar, Dunne, Petrov). Looking at that list they are probably the highest earners at the club, the most experienced players at the club and at the moment they can't have any influence on the team because they are out, which means that we have to settle with youth and players from foreign leagues. I think we just need some old heads in the team to calm down and encourage the better of the young players we have. The rest of the young players can become back-up, as realistically that is all they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 And who was our manager back then? The same guy who got you 12th in your first season back in the Premier League after back to back promotions from League 1. You completely ignored the very good point that the Norwich fan made. In case you didn't realise, they were talking about teams and how many they conceded last season. Norwich conceded a lot at the back and were poor defensively. This season under the same manager we are conceding a lot and are at times poor defensively. He didn't claim Lambert was a bad manager, he wasn't bad-mouthing the guy. Why when people are talking about defensive records do you talk about Norwich's 3 previous seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raver50032 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 January is huge. Yes it is... much bigger than February by 2 days. Sorry - I know what you meant, I just couldn't resist... xx :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have been quite negative the past few years, but even with the last two results I don't think we will go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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