KjParton Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Richard tell me if we're gunna sign a striker before west spam!?! PLEASE :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 You're a right cocktease Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It has been said big boy ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Anita going to Newcastle. Is he any good? Know Lambert wanted him when he was at Norwich. Given Toon's recent history signing obscure players, I'd venture to guess he's very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Its not as definitive as that managers should be able to motivate players. There are other factors to consider, the main one being if you have a split dressing room with problematic players they might not want to be motivated no matter what the manager does. McLeish did hint that there were problems within the squad. He couldn't drop those players due to financial restrictions and not having experienced replacements. Players should also be professional enough to motivate themselves into decent levels of performance. Pride should be motivation alone! I think its very narrow minded to just blame the manager for the levels of performance last season as there quite obviously other factors to consider.I'm not solely blaming the manager. You're not even reading my posts properly. Of course there are other factors to consider, but that doesn't mean that McLeish didn't do a piss poor job at motivating the team. He also didn't even make an effort to overhaul the defence. In fact he made it worse. Yes there were restrictions but these are vastly overstated. You are ignoring my point on why we were set up so negatively. Bruce got the best out of Bent due to the correct service and i have already clearly explained why that didn't happen with us last season. Please be mindful within our previous debate one of the mods asked us to stop debating the same point over and over again as it was boring which i agree with!Bent didn't have that many good players around him at the mighty Sunderland. There was absolutely no reason for us to be set up so negatively. I can't believe you're defending it! Fair enough if we had a good defence but we didn't. Our defence was and still is our weakest area. One of the very few games where we did attack (coincidentally against Norwich in November) we actually played pretty well and won. Whenever he set us up negatively we often lost and rarely ever got close to winning. As far as Gabby goes then we're agreed that he is not as potent, so your previous point about us being able to score more goals is invalid!You seem to have missed the part where I said he's still a good player to have around the squad. He actually looked very good in McLeish's first couple of months. N'Zogbia is repeating the same form in pre season as he was last season and i refer you to the above point concerning Gabby!Well let's wait until the actual season shall we? Oh, and who bought N'Zogbia for nigh on £10m? St Alex. If you read my post again concerning Ireland you will see that i stated he was our best player last season and WAS ABLE to to play his natural game even though my main point was, is his effectiveness and performances worth the wages?I do agree that he isn't worth the wages (yet) but you're completely missing the point - a front four of Gabby, Ireland, N'Zogbia and Bent should not be scoring the SECOND LEAST amount of goals in the division. I totally disagree about your assumption concerning Keane that when he was in the team we dire to watch and ultra negative. Did you actually watch the games he played in? We changed our system to accommodate him and played some very attractive football as our passing was more to feet than hoof. We weren't Barca but our performances did improve and thats my point!Lol attractive football? Don't know who you were watching. We were still exceedingly shit and negative, just slightly less so. No i said we finished where we did due to having a poor squad of players. I never stated, or implied that McLeish did a good job and here we have another example Mantis of you trying to put words into other poster's mouths when they quite obviously haven't been stated in the posts. This is quite annoying and something you should get away from. Debate on what has been stated not what you think is being implied!You said yourself where we finished was about right for the squad we had (which is rubbish by the way). That means that you think McLeish did a fair job. I'm not putting words into your mouth at all, I'm just grasping the implications of your words which you haven't really done. Either you think we finished where we did because the squad was poor and there was nothing McLeish could do (which would also mean that McLeish did a fair job) or you think we underachieved and finished in a poor position for the squad we had (which would mean that McLeish did a poor job). Lambert's not only changing the defence Mantis is he? He's also purchased a midfielder as well so he is not just concentrating on defence. Another point in your debate which is invalid.I never said he was focusing solely on the defence, I just said he's trying to improve the defence. Another part of my post which you have not read correctly and have resorted to childish jibes. Norwich are currently a better team than us because they finished higher up the table. I note you have stated that we beat Norwich when we first played them so by your own logic that makes McLeish a better manager than Lambert, certainly earlier in the season. Doesn't really work that Mantis does it? Finishing above someone does not automatically mean you have a better squad. Managers play a big part and some managers can get the best out of a limited squad (e.g. Lambert) where as others fail miserably and end up finishing below teams despite some of the teams above them having worse squads (e.g. McLeish). No, that wouldn't necessarily make McLeish a better manager because there's more to football than just one game! Your logic is completely insane. Norwich finished above us last season despite having a poorer squad because they had a better manager. What is so hard to comprehend about that? It's astounding that after how poorly McLeish did people are still willing to defend him. Would even go as far as to say he's overrated on here sometimes. Decided to retort as you have again gone off in a tangent to try and defend yourself rather than deal with the actual question! If you read your own posts you clearly state that it was the McLeish factor that caused our final position last season and you have stated that on more than one occasion without mentioning any other contributing factors, so you are contradicting yourself are you not? It is therefore not me who is misreading your previous posts and i see now you agree that there are other determining factors for a team not performing. Strange you have only admitted to that after reading my previous post! I have already explained my opinion on us being set up so negatively last season so there's no reason to repeat it. As far as Gabby is concerned your previous point was invalid even if you don't wish to admit to that. Concerning your remark on who signed N'Zogbia i don't think the signing of N'Zogbia was a point of our debate rather it was his performances but i guess thats just you trying to point score again which i want nothing to do with. As far as me missing the point about our front four scoring the second least amount of goals last season, i didn't miss your point, i just didn't agree with your opinion on why that was so and fully explained my own opinion on that. Not agreeing and missing someone's point are two highly different things. My opinion on the reasoning why we finished where we did last season which you have deemed 'rubbish' is exactly that, my opinion. If you don't agree with it then fair enough. However you did by the very nature of your most recent reply, comment on what you thought i was saying and not actually what i said and i was right to correct you on that. Its a bad habit on any forum. Accusing me of making childish comments on whether Lambert was concentrating on restructuring the defence or the whole team is poor Mantis as clearly i did nothing of the sort. I pointed out a contradiction in your post and nothing more than that. My comments on Lambert and McLeish were replies to your type of logic and not my own. Read your posts again Mantis to see what i mean. As far as your point on whether McLeish is over rated on here, well, lets just say that within the Villa fraternity there is no-one who is sorry to see him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Morpheus and Mantis can you please carry on your discussion in a private message or something pleaseeeeeeeeeee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 No problem 'daggy_333.' I think i'll let him be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Stop being such a smug tosser CI, people like you have already chased JulieB off the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 If you read your own posts you clearly state that it was the McLeish factor that caused our final position last season and you have stated that on more than one occasion without mentioning any other contributing factors, so you are contradicting yourself are you not? It is therefore not me who is misreading your previous posts and i see now you agree that there are other determining factors for a team not performing. Strange you have only admitted to that after reading my previous post!I've never once said that McLeish wss the only reason for our poor performance last season, and I admitted that the players weren't blameless long before this conversation even began. I have already explained my opinion on us being set up so negatively last season so there's no reason to repeat it.Your opinion is a baffling one to say the least. Our squad's strengths clearly lay in attack, so to instead set us up in a defensive manner is just asking for trouble. McLeish's negative tactics are indefensible. As far as Gabby is concerned your previous point was invalid even if you don't wish to admit to that.When you disagree with someone, just say that, instead of saying "your point is invalid". Because what you're calling invalid are mere opinions. Concerning your remark on who signed N'Zogbia i don't think the signing of N'Zogbia was a point of our debate rather it was his performances but i guess thats just you trying to point score again which i want nothing to do with.Stop with this "point scoring" rubbish as well. N'Zogbia wasn't very good last season (partly due to himself and partly due to poor management) but let's not forget who blew £9.5m on him in the first place. As far as me missing the point about our front four scoring the second least amount of goals last season, i didn't miss your point, i just didn't agree with your opinion on why that was so and fully explained my own opinion on that. Not agreeing and missing someone's point are two highly different things.You missed the point because instead of responding to my point on how that front four (by no means a bad set of players) managed to score the second least amount of goals in the division you picked them apart individually and focused on their negatives without mentioning their positives, all while virtually absolving McLeish of any blame. My opinion on the reasoning why we finished were we did last season which you have deemed 'rubbish' is exactly that, my opinion. If you don't agree with it then fair enough. However you did by the very nature of your most recent reply, comment on what you thought i was saying and not actually what i said and i was right to correct you on that. Its a bad habit on any forum.You can't have it both ways. You can't say "we finished in about the right place" and then accept that McLeish did a poor job. The mere fact that you accepted that McLeish did a poor job would mean that our squad was better than the position where we finished in. Likewise, if you think that the squad was bottom 5 quality that would automatically mean that you think McLeish did a fair job because that's where we ended up. Accusing me of making childish comments on whether Lambert was concentrating on restructuring the defence or the whole team is poor Mantis as clearly i did nothing of the sort. I pointed out a contradiction in your post and nothing more than that.There was no contradiction. You disagreed fair enough but disagreeing doesn't make my point "invalid". Using that word in the wrong places is a bad habit on any forum. My comments on Lambert and McLeish were replies to your type of logic and not my own. Read your posts again Mantis to see what i mean.Except that wasn't my logic at all. My logic was that Norwich finished above us not because they had a better squad (they clearly didn't) but because they had a better manager. You seem to have missed this. As far as your point on whether McLeish is over rated on here, well, lets just say that within the Villa fraternity there is no-one who is sorry to see him gone.And yet there are still some who go to great lengths who defend him. I know he's not popular but I still feel McLeish can be overrated somewhat. He was that bad! Dreadful manager. Thank God he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Where are those who said we WOULD back the manager 'and then some' earlier in the summer ? Indeed. Even in the depths of darkness that were the last 2 seasons I still wanted the managers to succeed for the greater good of the club . Lambert has my unreserved backing regardless of whether we sign anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Stop being such a smug tosser CI, people like you have already chased JulieB off the site. No I didn't ! And who are you to call someone a tosser ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Mantis its time you let it go especially when you are starting to debate your own points with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Depends if I can get back in time from tescos, hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Where are those who said we WOULD back the manager 'and then some' earlier in the summer ? Indeed. Even in the depths of darkness that were the last 2 seasons I still wanted the managers to succeed for the greater good of the club . Lambert has my unreserved backing regardless of whether we sign anyone else. I think by 'we' he means 'the board' and by 'back' he means 'give money to' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Where are those who said we WOULD back the manager 'and then some' earlier in the summer ? Indeed. Even in the depths of darkness that were the last 2 seasons I still wanted the managers to succeed for the greater good of the club . Lambert has my unreserved backing regardless of whether we sign anyone else. I think by 'we' he means 'the board' and by 'back' he means 'give money to' Oh Ok. ...But we will only know whether he has been backed sufficiently until after Lambert's tenure so criticism on that front seems premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Depends if I can get back in time from tescos, hopefully I'd like to think we'll have a striker in before west ham, Jordan Rhodes ideally However I'm having my doubts the cash is there tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Mantis its time you let it go especially when you are starting to debate your own points with yourself. Time to let what go? It's just a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Who knows, maybe Richard will you be "all over" this signing as you were with KEA, Lowton & Vlaar ;-) Depends if I can get back in time from tescos, hopefully Good luck mate - wont it be closed at this time on a sunday though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts