mjmooney Posted August 9, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2012 A friend of my misses discovered God in her 20's. She was going for a job at a religious school and they gave it to her on the condition she at least showed an interest in their faith so she attended a meeting of a group called Vineyard (I believe its a 'cool' church group for the young that as a side line looks to convert people). The day she went along she had got a parking ticket for £50, she must of told someone because at the end of the meeting there was £50 in her jacket. Obviously everyone denied anything to do with it and declared it was God's work and she fell for it. So started her conversion to Christianity and her decision to reject the idea of using her own brain. Within 2 years she had totally distanced herself from all her old friends to the point of walking past them in the street and had her new circle of friends. Oh and the best bit was she seemed to forget all the cock she took at Uni and reinvented herself as a virgin, married and told the guy she was a virgin. Seemingly lying is okay so long as God is slipping you the odd £50 here or there. Now she is a total lost cause and her brain is just something that rattles around her head. The upside is I never liked her so at least I don't have to spend time in her company any more. Perhaps there is a God???????She sounds like someone who is pretty much beneath contempt. Delusional, dishonest, uncharitable, hypocritical and downright unpleasant. I'd say they are welcome to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 9, 2012 Administrator Share Posted August 9, 2012 The reason behind my question about secularist / humanist organisations was not asking about the social side. I'm quite militantly secularist, I want complete removal of special privileges offered to religions by the state and am a member of some organisations on that basis. I'm a little surprised no-one else here is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The reason behind my question about secularist / humanist organisations was not asking about the social side. I'm quite militantly secularist, I want complete removal of special privileges offered to religions by the state and am a member of some organisations on that basis. I'm a little surprised no-one else here is. I have a £5 a month direct debit to the BHA and get some magazines etc but as for participating no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 9, 2012 Administrator Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm a member of the BHA and the NSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 9, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2012 You've got me thinking now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2012 In science-y news, that further undermines the holy books, we've confirmed that our ancestors were running around with at least 2 other human-like species now. Homo rudolfensis was sharing the planet with homo erectus and homo habilis. And probably others too. I'm sure the Bible explains it all, of course. Perhaps God was doing some very un-God like scientific experimenting with different designs and chose to only publish the one that worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I think some people may have got the impression Simon was talking about atheist support groups rather than secular activist groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I've missed a few pages, the beauty of a day on the road. I think there's a little pedantic thing to point out about churches. Church buildings are not the church, the church is the people in the building. If they all decide to meet somewhere else, then that's where the church is at. Only a small point. I'd also be interested to know what the scientific basis for there not being a God is. Surely all we've got proof of is that no God has been found yet and lots of people have written accounts of what they say God has said - and those writings have proved to be rubbish. I'd also agree church and state should be absolutely separated. There also seems to be a bit of a misconception about godbotherers being hypocrits as they are ex slappers or liars or pervs or whatever. I don't think many religious people think they are pure or superior (other than tv evangelists who obviously are genuinely angelic), I think they actually realise and appreciate they are flawed. It's not that they believe they are special, it's that they know they are not. But that's probbaly as much of a generalisation has the blanket cod psycho analysis elsewhere. There seems to be lots of science posturing, followed by presumptions, stereotyping and name calling. Guess neither side is perfect. A million misguided Mormons and Catholics and Seikhs doesn't mean there is no God. It surely only means there are a million misguided people out there. Equally, a million scientists that fail to land Beagle 2 on Mars, turn out to be kiddy fiddlers, invent new land mines or corner the genetic wheat market for financial gain in Africa do not mean science is bad or wrong. But don't let a bit of balance spoil a good thread. Oh yeah, you can't have balance because one side has mental problems in the only thread where you're allowed to label other groups of fans. Right, I've got to get all these toys back in me pram now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 there is no god, that is a fact and I think even religious people know this but their unfortunate upbringing has brain washed many adults for life which is a shame. Huh? I think that kind of proves my point tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 There was a series of documentries on TV here a while ago, and although I found them interesting I also found that no one asks the right questions ( in my opinion anyway ) for instance.There was one about the cities of Sodom and Gomorra.An archiologist said that he had found the actual cities ruins, and that there was proof that they were destroyed the way the bible says they were.This may be true BUT no one asks WHY did God kil all those people ? I know they were supposed to be bad,but to kill them ? In another documentry they found the ruins of the walls of Jerico. But again no one asked why did God tell them how knock the walls down, so that they could go ahead and kill each other ? Couldent he think of a peacefull solution, at least to try ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I've missed a few pages, the beauty of a day on the road. I think there's a little pedantic thing to point out about churches. Church buildings are not the church, the church is the people in the building. If they all decide to meet somewhere else, then that's where the church is at. Only a small point. If the building's are not that important then why not sell off the billions of pounds worth of real estate and give all the money to the poor ? It's what Jesus would have wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 A church is where people go to pray. Surely you do not have to be in a church to pray ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 10, 2012 A church is where people go to pray. Surely you do not have to be in a church to pray ? You don't, but it's like public speaking without a microphone. He can hear you better in church. It has a more direct line to him. So your prayers are answered more quickly and more definitively when you go to church. Like the £50 in Trent's anecdote. That might only have been a twenty if it happened at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 But don't let a bit of balance spoil a good thread. Oh yeah, you can't have balance because one side has mental problems in the only thread where you're allowed to label other groups of fans. I wouldn't say those with faith are mental. There are some super intelligent people who believe in strange things . Lot's of believers have their faith because they have a deep seated need to do so .It doesn't mean they are mental, just that they are afraid, which is a natural human emotion. I was a devout Catholic until my mid teens and I completely understand what it is like to believe in God wholeheartedly . It doesn't mean I was right though. It just means that I was indoctrinated into the faith of my family and didn't know any different . Been told something over and over during your childhood will have a profound effect on the human mind. I remember not being able to sleep at night if I had forgotten to say a prayer before bed . I would have to get out of bed onto my knees and say a quick Our Father so that I could sleep easily. I was told that God sees and Knows everything and this had a powerful hold over me. It wasn't until my mid teens and 6th form , where I studied A level R.E. and Biology that I realised I had been lied to . My parents didn't lie to me on purpose obviously. They were just passing on what they had been taught by their parents etc. And this is how religions have such large numbers and keep ticking over. They get you whilst you are young and know no better . It is no coincidence that large religions tend to herd together geographically and that you are most likely to follow the religion of your parents . Most of the time being a Muslim, Jew , Christian or Sikh etc isn't down to individual choice based upon evidence but merely by the accident of birth and the arbitrary location of your birthplace. To that end I don't really hate The believers themselves , just the organisations that perpetuate the lies. As for science not disproving God I would agree....because it is out of science's remit . Science is based upon evidence and there is no evidence for God so it doesn't even concern science. There are a billion things which have no evidence for their existence but I doubt science has the time, energy,resources or desire to refute any of them . It isn't up to science to disprove God. It is up to those who assert God's existence to prove that God does exist. Believers aren't mental. They just hold mental beliefs . As do a lot of humans , both theist and atheist alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I've missed a few pages, the beauty of a day on the road. I think there's a little pedantic thing to point out about churches. Church buildings are not the church, the church is the people in the building. If they all decide to meet somewhere else, then that's where the church is at. Only a small point. If the building's are not that important then why not sell off the billions of pounds worth of real estate and give all the money to the poor ? It's what Jesus would have wanted. agreed perfectly logical to me to sell off the gold and the properties and the fancy hats first in order to help the poor, then go for some divine intervention later that's certainly the order I'll be working in once I'm in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 10, 2012 While Chris picks up his toys I've found that when both sides of the belief-coin criticise each other, it is always the religious person who is less capable of taking the criticism. If you were truly comfortable with your beliefs; as I am; then it doesn't matter what anyone calls you. If I question a religious person's beliefs they get far far more offended than when they question my lack of belief in a God. I don't understand that. To me it points towards a deep-seated element of doubt within them, whether they would ever admit it or not. Otherwise there's no explanation to their inability to take a ribbing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 While Chris picks up his toys I've found that when both sides of the belief-coin criticise each other, it is always the religious person who is less capable of taking the criticism. If you were truly comfortable with your beliefs; as I am; then it doesn't matter what anyone calls you. If I question a religious person's beliefs they get far far more offended than when they question my lack of belief in a God. I don't understand that. To me it points towards a deep-seated element of doubt within them, whether they would ever admit it or not. Otherwise there's no explanation to their inability to take a ribbing at all. Yeah, I think there's definitely a bit of the persecution complex that goes with many religious people. Even down to degrees and levels of belief within their little sub sects. Personally, I'm ok with a bit of banter and I'm relaxed in my own personalised code and belief system. I also couldn't care less what your belief system is, just as I couldn't care less what your accent, colour, sexual preference or limb count is. I might take the mickey out of someone for being scouse or ginger or cockerney, but I don't mean it. As long as in reality you treat people fairly and equally. But there is banter and there is insult. I wouldn't dream of telling someone on this board that I believe they have mental issues or that I can't see or treat them as a normal person. Surely that's some sort of 'ism' that should be avoided these days. I am genuinely scared of really religious people, something is not quite connected correctly. If they can argue about believing in nothing and force small children to do the same they are capable of anything. Because these people are mad I humbly suggest our problem is that we have not offended them nearly enough, and that the sooner we expose these idiots for what they are, the better it will be for all of us. Just a few examples from a few pages. If people were to respond in similar vein, well, I'm sure that would only prove how awful the bible bashers are. But strangely that doesn't appear to work both ways. I suppose the answer is, if you can't take it, stick to the music threads. But it's just interesting to see a procession of people that are so convinced they are 'better' that they are happy to label great swathes of society. Let's see a similar occurence in a thread about race or disability and see how many red cards get dished out. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a defence of any organised religion or individual. I think Catholicism does significant harm in some places with some of its policies, I think the C of E needs to be removed from any state roll, I think people that give money to God TV on cable channel whatever are getting something very basically wrong. I think anyone that believes the literal wording of any book that's been selected and translated numerous times needs to have a good think. I also think everyone deserves a bit of respect. Long winded and waffly I know. But there are lots of people that appear to know what they don't like but aren't offering much of an alternative. They don't like the idea of kids learning to get on in a pleasant little community, the alternatives offered so far appear to be absolute individualism or the pub. Which is flipant and funny, but it's not really going to get the whole world being nice to each other is it? There is a network of well intentioned mild mannered people across the world trying to do good. They need to be channelled into genuinely helping out in everyday practical ways. Not condemned and dismissed as nutters. I reckon I'm going to duck out for an hour or two in case I get confused for some sort of official spokeperson, internet prefect or someone that's got a clue what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ad Hominem attacks don't do anyone any favours, but even the refutation of illogical or unproven beliefs seems to cause offence to a lot of believers, which is their problem I am afraid. Calling someone mental = Out of line IMO Calling their beliefs mental = No problem IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted August 10, 2012 A church is where people go to pray. Surely you do not have to be in a church to pray ? According to Matthew 6:5 there is no place for churches in Christianity. You must not pray in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted August 10, 2012 I think the C of E needs to be removed from any state roll Based on this, are you a member of a secularist organisation like the NSS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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