The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[PIW]

Actually to refine my point. if we don't win at Sunderland - and who really fancies us to do that? - then even a draw at home against Norwich is the start of the end.

[Shillzz]

To look at things objectively with regards to Saturday's performance:

1) I think he got the team selection spot on. He managed to get our best players into a starting 11 and recognised the need to add a bit of steel to the midfield. Made a brave decision in starting Herd (who's sending off he cannot be held accountable for). The only selection I'd question would be that of NZogbia, I'd possibly have started Heskey ahead of him.

2) We played to our strengths untill the sending off. Getting the ball to Bannan in a central position and looking to create from there. I think his tactics were fairly sound untill this point. Playing Herd as a dedicated DM deserves credit, as he provided a lot of protection for the back 4. Though I would question playing Hutton and NZogbia on the same wing, as this was always going to be a weak spot defensively.

3) When we went a man down, we didnt know what to do. McLeish failed to respond to the situation and we were basically sitting ducks, waiting to be beaten. You can't play a midfield of Gabby, Petrov, Bannan & NZogbia in a derby. He needed to introduce some steel into the side at this point. Granted options were fairly limited but perhaps Clark could have been introduced in a DM role with Bannan going wide.

4) With regards to the substutions:

Bringing Heskey on made a lot of sense, make no mistake. We were looking like conceding from every set piece up untill that point. I Dont disagree with this substition at all. To play him in CM, was pretty much the only option. You don't take Gabby or Bent off when you're losing by a single goal, and being down to 10 men, McLeish had no other choice than to play him there.

However - Taking Bannan off for Albrighton was pure stupidity. Bannan was our only hope of getting anything from the game. This substition took us from playing with 3 central midfielders to playing with Heskey and Petrov in CM & Albrighton clinging to the touchline. Given the lack of bodies in the centre of the pitch, this was an utterly ridiculous substition. Firstly, Bannan should have stayed on and secondly, if a player was to come on, it should have been Ireland. Albrighton was, and has been, utterly useless. He contributed precisely nothing and failed to impose himself on the game in any way.

All in all, McLeish probably did 2 things wrong on Saturday - failing to re-organise the team following the sending odd & substituting Bannan.

[Keyblade]

To look at things objectively with regards to Saturday's performance:

1) I think he got the team selection spot on. He managed to get our best players into a starting 11 and recognised the need to add a bit of steel to the midfield. Made a brave decision in starting Herd (who's sending off he cannot be held accountable for). The only selection I'd question would be that of NZogbia, I'd possibly have started Heskey ahead of him.

2) We played to our strengths untill the sending off. Getting the ball to Bannan in a central position and looking to create from there. I think his tactics were fairly sound untill this point. Playing Herd as a dedicated DM deserves credit, as he provided a lot of protection for the back 4. Though I would question playing Hutton and NZogbia on the same wing, as this was always going to be a weak spot defensively.

3) When we went a man down, we didnt know what to do. McLeish failed to respond to the situation and we were basically sitting ducks, waiting to be beaten. You can't play a midfield of Gabby, Petrov, Bannan & NZogbia in a derby. He needed to introduce some steel into the side at this point. Granted options were fairly limited but perhaps Clark could have been introduced in a DM role with Bannan going wide.

4) With regards to the substutions:

Bringing Heskey on made a lot of sense, make no mistake. We were looking like conceding from every set piece up untill that point. I Dont disagree with this substition at all. To play him in CM, was pretty much the only option. You don't take Gabby or Bent off when you're losing by a single goal, and being down to 10 men, McLeish had no other choice than to play him there.

However - Taking Bannan off for Albrighton was pure stupidity. Bannan was our only hope of getting anything from the game. This substition took us from playing with 3 central midfielders to playing with Heskey and Petrov in CM & Albrighton clinging to the touchline. Given the lack of bodies in the centre of the pitch, this was an utterly ridiculous substition. Firstly, Bannan should have stayed on and secondly, if a player was to come on, it should have been Ireland. Albrighton was, and has been, utterly useless. He contributed precisely nothing and failed to impose himself on the game in any way.

All in all, McLeish probably did 2 things wrong on Saturday - failing to re-organise the team following the sending odd & substituting Bannan.

Absolutely agree. Except I would've had Ireland instead of N'Zogbia from the off.

[Shillzz]

Indeed. No way did NZogbia deserve a start, but there was little other option unfortunately. As you say, Ireland could have started, forcing either he or Bannan out wide, but I thought it was a good decision to have Bannan in CM personally.

[Villaboy69]

Personally I don't think the changes he made were too bad, the biggest mistake we made after the sending off was to play to deep.

You have to make the pitch as small as possible when you're a man down and all we needed to do was to play a high line. I know this would have exposed us to the pace of odenwinge but playing as deep as we did just allowed wba to pass the ball around us

[Shillzz]

Personally I don't think the changes he made were too bad, the biggest mistake we made after the sending off was to play to deep.

You have to make the pitch as small as possible when you're a man down and all we needed to do was to play a high line. I know this would have exposed us to the pace of odenwinge but playing as deep as we did just allowed wba to pass the ball around us

But then you run the risk of getting completely turned over like United did yesterday. Agree that we gave them too much space on the ball though, this was WBA, not Chelsea, and we made them look like Barcelona at times.

[Keyblade]

Indeed. No way did NZogbia deserve a start, but there was little other option unfortunately. As you say, Ireland could have started, forcing either he or Bannan out wide, but I thought it was a good decision to have Bannan in CM personally.

I still would have had Bannan centrally in the diamond formation we used against Wigan.

----------Ireland-----------

--Bannan-------Petrov-----

-----------Herd-------------

We probably would've had another goal had the Hutton-N'Zog collabo not ruined half of our attacks.

[Houlston]

Hold on its not like we conceded from a flowing move or counter attack. We conceded from two corners, one of which from a player that would have been marked by the sent off Herd. If Collins and Dunne fail to actually jump in the air then I dont see how that is AM's fault? The second goal was another corner whereby Cuellar failed to get a foot in before Scharner, how is that also AM's fault?

Sometimes players need to take responsibility there is only so much a manager can do and Saturday his starting line up was spot on.

[Shillzz]

Indeed. No way did NZogbia deserve a start, but there was little other option unfortunately. As you say, Ireland could have started, forcing either he or Bannan out wide, but I thought it was a good decision to have Bannan in CM personally.

I still would have had Bannan centrally in the diamond formation we used against Wigan.

----------Ireland-----------

--Bannan-------Petrov-----

-----------Herd-------------

We probably would've had another goal had the Hutton-N'Zog collabo not ruined half of our attacks.

Given that we created absolutely nothing from wide positions, this could have been a better option. Ireland should certainly be higher up the pecking order than NZogbia.

That said, I can understand why McLeish played with more width and didnt necesserily want to start Ireland. The full backs would have been left a little exposed with the diamond formation and it may be that McLeish felt that a derby game would pass someone like Ireland by. That said, anyone putting a good amount of effort in would have topped NZogbia's performance.

[Keyblade]

Indeed. No way did NZogbia deserve a start, but there was little other option unfortunately. As you say, Ireland could have started, forcing either he or Bannan out wide, but I thought it was a good decision to have Bannan in CM personally.

I still would have had Bannan centrally in the diamond formation we used against Wigan.

----------Ireland-----------

--Bannan-------Petrov-----

-----------Herd-------------

We probably would've had another goal had the Hutton-N'Zog collabo not ruined half of our attacks.

Given that we created absolutely nothing from wide positions, this could have been a better option. Ireland should certainly be higher up the pecking order than NZogbia.

That said, I can understand why McLeish played with more width and didnt necesserily want to start Ireland. The full backs would have been left a little exposed with the diamond formation and it may be that McLeish felt that a derby game would pass someone like Ireland by. That said, anyone putting a good amount of effort in would have topped NZogbia's performance.

Spot on.

[barry'sboots]

We conceded from two corners, one of which from a player that would have been marked by the sent off Herd. If Collins and Dunne fail to actually jump in the air then I dont see how that is AM's fault? The second goal was another corner whereby Cuellar failed to get a foot in before Scharner, how is that also AM's fault?.

Because if you sit back and let a team apply pressure on you for 60 minutes you will invariably at some point concede.

The fact that we had no shots on target and had little possession shows that Eck hasn't got a clue.

The sooner he is out of our club the better.

[Mantis]

To be honest I think McLeish did get everything right in the line-up and how he set the team out to play, but once we were down to 10 men he was shown up to be clueless. I know it's not his fault (or Herd's for that matter) that we had a player sent off but he should be able to react to this at this.

[Zatman]

Clark is so much better technically, Collins only has brute force over him imo so that's a bit disappointing.

I agree but if we going to play Stoke or Bolton id have Collins over Clark. Clark looks like he is easily bullied like by Carroll last season

Not sure why Collins has the reputation for being good in the air - which I assume is why you would put him in against Stoke. Personally, I would play Cuellar and Dunne with Clark in front of them.

he wouldnt get bullied like Clark would

[CI]

Can't see Bannan being in this weeks squad, perhaps a chance for Gardner ??

[wildwood]

I think we should try Clark in a DCM position, he played well there last year, and offers support and height in defence, as well as some attacking threat.

So the 5 can stay in defence, giving some fluidity to the remaining 5 outfield players

I wonder if a 4-1-4-1 would work, if 2 of the 4 in midfield offered support to the striker? The way Everton used to play with Carsley/Neville I think between midfield and defence.

[jacketspuds]

We certainly need to change something as we cannot stop conceding from corners. I would put Clark in DM alongside Petrov and play Ireland, Agbonlahor & Bannan/N'Zogbia in front of them. The problem is nobody is supporting Bent and we are not creating chances for him.

0 shots on target is awful regardless of how many men you have on the pitch (see Chelsea yesterday).

Against Sunderland I would play

Given

Cuellar Dunne Collins Warnock

Petrov Clark

N'Zogbia Ireland Agbonlahor

Bent

Would put Bannan in but given his recent run in with the law it's unlikely he'll feature IMO.

[Houlston]

We conceded from two corners, one of which from a player that would have been marked by the sent off Herd. If Collins and Dunne fail to actually jump in the air then I dont see how that is AM's fault? The second goal was another corner whereby Cuellar failed to get a foot in before Scharner, how is that also AM's fault?.

Because if you sit back and let a team apply pressure on you for 60 minutes you will invariably at some point concede.

The fact that we had no shots on target and had little possession shows that Eck hasn't got a clue.

The sooner he is out of our club the better.

We had ten men FFS, we havent got the most technically gifted players at the best of times, we havent played a possesion game properly for years.

Also we had 47% possesion so thats hardly little possesion with ten men.

And as I said we conceded from two corners.

I saw yesterday that someone put United are having a go, well great they did it for around 5 minutes but dont forget they have some excellent players, they should be able to apply some pressure. Fact is though they conceded 6 and were lucky not to concede a lot more but well done them.

[Houlston]

To be honest I think McLeish did get everything right in the line-up and how he set the team out to play, but once we were down to 10 men he was shown up to be clueless. I know it's not his fault (or Herd's for that matter) that we had a player sent off but he should be able to react to this at this.

What was wrong with the lineup and how we set out to play?

Course hindsight is a wonderful thing but as far as I could see we were 1-0 up till the sending off.

Perhaps bringing on Emile in that position was wrong but I thought it was probably the right choice considering how we conceded from the corners.

[barry'sboots]

To be honest I think McLeish did get everything right in the line-up and how he set the team out to play, but once we were down to 10 men he was shown up to be clueless. I know it's not his fault (or Herd's for that matter) that we had a player sent off but he should be able to react to this at this.

What was wrong with the lineup and how we set out to play?

Course hindsight is a wonderful thing but as far as I could see we were 1-0 up till the sending off.

Perhaps bringing on Emile in that position was wrong but I thought it was probably the right choice considering how we conceded from the corners.

The right decision, IMO, would have been to bring Clark on as a direct replacement for Herd and go:

------------- Clark ---------------

------ Petrov ---- Bannan/NZog

------- Bent ------- Gab ---------

Or

---------- Clark -- Petrov ----------

Bannan/Zog ------------------- Gab

---------------- Bent ----------------

As the front five.

This would have given us a like for like (or similar) replacement and retained the aerial ability.

[barry'sboots]

We conceded from two corners, one of which from a player that would have been marked by the sent off Herd. If Collins and Dunne fail to actually jump in the air then I dont see how that is AM's fault? The second goal was another corner whereby Cuellar failed to get a foot in before Scharner, how is that also AM's fault?.

Because if you sit back and let a team apply pressure on you for 60 minutes you will invariably at some point concede.

The fact that we had no shots on target and had little possession shows that Eck hasn't got a clue.

The sooner he is out of our club the better.

We had ten men FFS, we havent got the most technically gifted players at the best of times, we havent played a possesion game properly for years.

Also we had 47% possesion so thats hardly little possesion with ten men.

And as I said we conceded from two corners.

The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities!

The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom.

Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season.

I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton.