The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[briny_ear]

Who would have thought Aberdeen could win the European Cup?

I'd imagine McLeish did, seeing as he was there at the time.

Also isn't it the Cup Winners Cup not the European Cup?

To be fair, they did also win the European Super Cup in December 1983 and McLeish was in that side as well.

[macandally]

SnC,

I dont know enough about the thought process to give a definitive answer but there could be any number of reasons why a RB was bought and defensive CM wasn't.

It could well be that AMc regarded the CM options at the club with the addition of N'Zog and Jenas to be sufficent, whereas he might have considered a PL quality RB to be more important.

You mention Cuellar doing a job but he's been injured and if it were not foe the injury he may well be north of the border right now. I certainly wouldn't trust Beye, Herd and Lichaj for a whole season.

It may be that we attempted to sign a DCM but couldn't find an available player that met the requirements of club, perhaps we did and he didn't want to move with 30 miles of the training ground??

It might be we could find a DCM for £4m but his wage demands were too high, and given that we couldn't afford a DCM he decided the next priority was a RB??

All I'm saying is it isn't fair to simply point the finger at the manager.

I am sure there is a reason why teams are built around a strong spine and not a strong right flank.

Every man and his dog knew we needed a defensive CM to sit in there, we brought a right back, we only had another three.

We are soft in the middle, the manager had 15 million quid or so, he brought NZogbia and Hutton. We werent that bloody poor so stop making excuses for him, you can only spend it once and he spent the money he had, the way he wanted to.

[Houlston]

Every man and his dog knew we needed a defensive CM to sit in there, we brought a right back, we only had another three.

Hmmm every Villa man and his Villa dog watch the Villa week in week out and maybe it was clear to some of those, McLeish has only just joined so perhaps it wasnt as clear as he wouldnt have known the players as well. However maybe just maybe the fact we have Petrov who many like, we have Delph who McLeish might have thought could fill this area, we have Gardner who may step into this position, we have Clark who many think could slot here too. Warnock himself played very well there at Blackburn. So whilst it is so clear to you before McLeish turned up perhaps McLeish has a different view point to someone in Rome.

And if he does agree with your view then maybe he did try to sign someone but it didnt come to fruition.

I guess its best to take the black and white outlook that we needed a DCM we didnt got one ergo McLeish is clueless.

[stanthemanisgod]

Having sold 2 very good wingers and being left with only a young player having made his breakthrough season it was also clear to everyone that we needed a wide player too - N'Zogbia.

Having seen our record breaking 1st choice GK leave the club and being left with only a 2nd rate back up in Guzan it was clear to everyone we needed a quality GK - Given.

Having seen our 1st choice right back sold, and being left with a player who had been forced to train with the reserves, an injured CB who can play RB if required, a Young RB who was dropped in favour of a loaned young RB from spurs and a Young CB with only a couple of PL appearances under his belt it was obvious to most that we needed a PL quality RB.

I'm fairly sure having seen all of that AMc could also see that the midfield needed some extra quality as well, but in terms of numbers we're actually pretty healthy when it comes to midfielders.

What none of could, can or claim to have seen is what negotiations the club and AMc entered into during the summer. It might, MIGHT, be that he did try to sign a defensive midfielder and for whatever reason the deal didn't come off.

[macandally]

Every man and his dog knew we needed a defensive CM to sit in there, we brought a right back, we only had another three.

Hmmm every Villa man and his Villa dog watch the Villa week in week out and maybe it was clear to some of those, McLeish has only just joined so perhaps it wasnt as clear as he wouldnt have known the players as well. However maybe just maybe the fact we have Petrov who many like, we have Delph who McLeish might have thought could fill this area, we have Gardner who may step into this position, we have Clark who many think could slot here too. Warnock himself played very well there at Blackburn. So whilst it is so clear to you before McLeish turned up perhaps McLeish has a different view point to someone in Rome.

And if he does agree with your view then maybe he did try to sign someone but it didnt come to fruition.

I guess its best to take the black and white outlook that we needed a DCM we didnt got one ergo McLeish is clueless.

No longer in Rome, now back in Worcester. Although thanks to the internet, I dont miss a game. I chose not to go to the games this season.

The rest he had a couple of months to sort prior to the transfer window closing. First thing I would have done is ask for the video of last season, then talk to the coaching staff that were at the club, then talk to the players themselves. You know, that managment stuff we are paying him for.

Houllier had no pre season or transfer window in the summer, yet got murdered. McLeish had both, but because we havent lost to any relegation fodder, he is doing OK.

[macandally]

Having sold 2 very good wingers and being left with only a young player having made his breakthrough season it was also clear to everyone that we needed a wide player too - N'Zogbia.

Having seen our record breaking 1st choice GK leave the club and being left with only a 2nd rate back up in Guzan it was clear to everyone we needed a quality GK - Given.

Having seen our 1st choice right back sold, and being left with a player who had been forced to train with the reserves, an injured CB who can play RB if required, a Young RB who was dropped in favour of a loaned young RB from spurs and a Young CB with only a couple of PL appearances under his belt it was obvious to most that we needed a PL quality RB.

I'm fairly sure having seen all of that AMc could also see that the midfield needed some extra quality as well, but in terms of numbers we're actually pretty healthy when it comes to midfielders.

What none of could, can or claim to have seen is what negotiations the club and AMc entered into during the summer. It might, MIGHT, be that he did try to sign a defensive midfielder and for whatever reason the deal didn't come off.

Yep, we really needed a winger so we can play the 4-2-3-1 formation.

Given was, excuse the pun, a given and so obvious a signing my 9 year old was asking if he might replace Friedel.

McLeish sold that first choice rightback so he could bring in his Rangers buddy. Young was the premiership quality full back!!!! Him with Heard as backup was plenty enough, even withstanding Cuellers injury.

You are sure he knew the midfield needed strengthining but no one is sure whether he tried to sign one or not?? I think you, like everyone else, is guessing.

None of the above withholds the key fact that McLeish spent nearly 20 million and didnt buy a DM which he should have quickly established we needed.

[Hanky]

McLeish sold that first choice rightback so he could bring in his Rangers buddy. Young was the premiership quality full back!!!! Him with Heard as backup was plenty enough, even withstanding Cuellers injury.

Young has wanted to go back to London for about two years. It wouldn't surprise me if he jumped at the chance when QPR came in for him.

[Morpheus]

Of course the manager makes the difference..Who would have thought Aberdeen could win the European Cup?

If the manager didnt matter and its just about getting a great squad of players...Why bother appointing a manager in the 1st place?

Fergie at Villa? We would be in the top 4. What we see from Jones/Smalling we would now be seeing from Clark..What we see from Cleverly we would now be seeing from Bannan..Delph would be turned into a player like Fletcher.. I doubt players like Heskey, Petrov, Hutton and Collins would even be at the club. And like under Houllier, Bent would be scoring for fun under Fergie..You are talking managers that know how to move clubs forward..

Totally agree. Fergie would within a pre season improve our movement off the ball thereby creating more space and chances. He would replace those players with questionable technical ability with players who would be comfortable on the ball, not big name players as we couldn't afford them, but with his scouting network, young players with technical ability. Interesting to see if he would have kept Makoun?

That for me is the crutch of the matter. For far too long we have been purchasing players who have been full of spirit but lacking in the technical side of the game. Thats why even though we've spent quite a bit of money over the years, in general we have failed to move to the top tier of the Premiership. We've had some good players with able technical ability but not enough in the team all at once!

I blame that on the quality of manager the past and present board has brought in. AM is another who will not purchase the right player to move us forward.

[PauloBarnesi]

Houllier had no pre season or transfer window in the summer, yet got murdered. McLeish had both, but because we havent lost to any relegation fodder, he is doing OK.

To be fair Houllier had two great players in Young and Downing and spent well over £20 million and still did his best to under perform in new and unique ways

[Houlston]

First thing I would have done is ask for the video of last season, then talk to the coaching staff that were at the club, then talk to the players themselves. You know, that managment stuff we are paying him for.

What videos from last season would show Delph, Clark, Petrov, Gardner and Warnock cant play in this position?

And again just because we didnt get a DCM does not mean that he did not talk to the coaching staff or the players it is a very strange assumption to make.

Also you still dont know if we did try to bring a DCM in but through no fault of McLeish it fell through.

So you know that management stuff we are paying him for he might just be doing.

[KHV]

Yep, we really needed a winger so we can play the 4-2-3-1 formation.

[barry'sboots]

Yep, we really needed a winger so we can play the 4-2-3-1 formation.

no we dont, the 4-2-3-1 formation is the reason why everything is so dire. It's a piss poor tactic and its dull and negative.

It's basically 4-5-1 which leaves Bent isolated and its the reason why we create so few chances and have had least shots on target tahn anybody else in the premier league. There is no need for 2 holding midfielders at all. The formation is horible and the sooner its ditched the better IMO.

We need to play Gabby and Bent up top together

[barry'sboots]

It could well be that AMc regarded the CM options at the club with the addition of N'Zog and Jenas to be sufficent, whereas he might have considered a PL quality RB to be more important.

This could well have been the case. If it is then he is an idiot, IMHO, as this is the glaring omission in the squad currently. I can accept we needed the Zog to replace Ash and DJ and think he will prove to be a good buy. I don't see what Jenas brings, given what we already have. I would have prioritised a DCM over a right back - would have liked both but think the former is clearly much more important given the options we have at RB.

It may be that we attempted to sign a DCM but couldn't find an available player that met the requirements of club, perhaps we did and he didn't want to move with 30 miles of the training ground??

It might be we could find a DCM for £4m but his wage demands were too high, and given that we couldn't afford a DCM he decided the next priority was a RB??

All I'm saying is it isn't fair to simply point the finger at the manager.

But that is the crux of his job isn't it? Finding the right players to fill the gaps. Anyone could have identified De Jong but then found out that he wouldn't fit within our budget. Should the manager then say: "Well f*ck that for a game of soldiers, I can't find the player that I want for the money that I want to spend so I'll forget about that huge hole in my side???" The blame falls fairly and squarely on the manager.

The baggies operate on a much lower budget than us but they have at least one decent player for every position I think??

[kayarcee]

SnC,

I dont know enough about the thought process to give a definitive answer but there could be any number of reasons why a RB was bought and defensive CM wasn't.

It could well be that AMc regarded the CM options at the club with the addition of N'Zog and Jenas to be sufficent, whereas he might have considered a PL quality RB to be more important.

You mention Cuellar doing a job but he's been injured and if it were not foe the injury he may well be north of the border right now. I certainly wouldn't trust Beye, Herd and Lichaj for a whole season.

It may be that we attempted to sign a DCM but couldn't find an available player that met the requirements of club, perhaps we did and he didn't want to move with 30 miles of the training ground??

It might be we could find a DCM for £4m but his wage demands were too high, and given that we couldn't afford a DCM he decided the next priority was a RB??

All I'm saying is it isn't fair to simply point the finger at the manager.

This also all ignores the fact that as of the sale of Young and just before the purchase of Hutton, Lichaj went down for the season with a tear in his hip labrum. So we were even thinner at the position, especially since Herd is recognized as a CM, and did the fullback job as an emergency. Last time we had a CM playing fullback regularly, it wasn't all that pretty.

[briny_ear]

Think there was general agreement in the summer that AMc had plugged the most glaring gaps that had opened up in the squad. I don't remember anyone complaining that we had filled the GK, RB and winger x2 slot - indeed we undoubtedly didn't do enough in that last area.

So what is all this now about the obvious need to prioritise defensive midfield?

It wasn't a priority then and won't be until next summer. Let's hope AMc has some serious money to spend then, but somehow I doubt it.

[kayarcee]

Yep, we really needed a winger so we can play the 4-2-3-1 formation.

no we dont, the 4-2-3-1 formation is the reason why everything is so dire. It's a piss poor tactic and its dull and negative.

It's basically 4-5-1 which leaves Bent isolated and its the reason why we create so few chances and have had least shots on target tahn anybody else in the premier league. There is no need for 2 holding midfielders at all. The formation is horible and the sooner its ditched the better IMO.

We need to play Gabby and Bent up top together

Completely disagree with this. Barca play 4-6-0 effectively but they are anything but defensive. A 4-2-3-1 can be attacking as any formation if you get the right players playing it properly. Look at the Plop side a few years back with Mascherano and Alonso holding and Gerard, Kuyt and one other supporting Torres - probably the best football they have played in years.

Playing Heskey on the right of the three and not having a DCM in the two is a big part of the reason, IMO, it is pretty ineffective for us.

[VillaRoy]

I keep hearing people (and players) saying we are much tighter defensively under McLiesh, but are we really? Fulham 0-0, last season 1-1 (but were the better side last season), Everton away was same result as last season, Blackburn at home, conceded 1 goal in both games (scored 4 last season), Wolves at home, improvement as we drew 0-0 instead of losing 0-1, QPR away (no comparison), Newcastle at home, concede 1 this season, 0 last season. Man City was perhaps a reality check. Conceded same amount of goals this season as last. Our run of early fixtures could still be hiding our defensive frailties.

League Cup, concede 2 goals at home to a much changed Bolton side. Corresponding fixture, we beat Blackburn 3-1 at home.

We have been lucky in games such as Wigan and QPR not to concede peno's too. Verdict well and truly still out on if we have really improved defensively.

[Houlston]

It could well be that AMc regarded the CM options at the club with the addition of N'Zog and Jenas to be sufficent, whereas he might have considered a PL quality RB to be more important.

This could well have been the case. If it is then he is an idiot, IMHO, as this is the glaring omission in the squad currently. I can accept we needed the Zog to replace Ash and DJ and think he will prove to be a good buy. I don't see what Jenas brings, given what we already have. I would have prioritised a DCM over a right back - would have liked both but think the former is clearly much more important given the options we have at RB.

It may be that we attempted to sign a DCM but couldn't find an available player that met the requirements of club, perhaps we did and he didn't want to move with 30 miles of the training ground??

It might be we could find a DCM for £4m but his wage demands were too high, and given that we couldn't afford a DCM he decided the next priority was a RB??

All I'm saying is it isn't fair to simply point the finger at the manager.

But that is the crux of his job isn't it? Finding the right players to fill the gaps. Anyone could have identified De Jong but then found out that he wouldn't fit within our budget. Should the manager then say: "Well f*ck that for a game of soldiers, I can't find the player that I want for the money that I want to spend so I'll forget about that huge hole in my side???" The blame falls fairly and squarely on the manager.

The baggies operate on a much lower budget than us but they have at least one decent player for every position I think??

Barry your reasoning is so simplistic and black and white it smacks of football manager.

And you now seem to think the McLeish had the attitude of "well **** this" i cant find anyone, i mean it beggars belief that you could come to such a conclusion or even dream this up.

You dont know if he was looking, you dont know the reasons as to why no one was signed, so you cant lay the blame with McLeish. But again maybe McLeish believed Delph could step up or Clark or Gardner or maybe he has the idea that our most experienced player and one of the best readers of the game would fit the role nicely next to someone like Jenas.

[Mantis]

I keep hearing people saying we are much tighter defensively under McLiesh, but are we really? Fulham 0-0, last season 1-1 (but were the better side last season), Everton away was same result as last season, Blackburn at home, conceded 1 goal in both games (scored 4 last season), Wolves at home, improvement as we drew 0-0 instead of losing 0-1, QPR away (no comparison), Newcastle at home, concede 1 this season, 0 last season. Man City was perhaps a reality check. Conceded same amount of goals this season as last Our run of early fixtures could still be hiding our defensive frailties.

League Cup, concede 2 goals at home to a much changed Bolton side. Corresponding fixture, we beat Blackburn 3-1 at home.

We have been lucky in games such as Wigan and QPR not to concede peno's too. Verdict well and truly still out on if we have really improved defensively.

I agree with this. I think people are letting the stereotypes of Houllier and McLeish get in the way of their judgement. With regards to personnel, we never should have let Warnock back into the side. Collins needs to be got rid of too.

[ml1dch]

Collins needs to be got rid of too

The defender who has made the most blocks and clearances in the league this season?

Ok then.