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leviramsey

By leviramsey
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PauloBarnesi Newbie

PauloBarnesi

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With Armstrong the proof was massive and real and over several years. When Froome tests (or any Sky rider) positive and start bullying anti-dopers, ex-Tour winners, journalist they might have some evidence. Armstrong virtually didn’t do anything before the tour, then crushed his rivals. Froome has been in great form all season; he’s be beating everyone here over the season for the main part. 

 

People turned a blind eye to Armstrong; now they are looking for conspiracy theories. Healthy sceptism, but people need to start produce some evidence. 

 

Nice counterbalance:

 

 

Tim Kerrison, the Australian coach behind Bradley Wiggins's Tour de France and Olympic triumphs of 2012, has speculated that one reason for Team Sky's success may be that they have been able to jump into a "knowledge gap" that has been left in cycling as teams focused on the expertise and logistics of doping at the expense of coaching and rider development.

"I believe that we know a lot more than we did even 12 months ago," Kerrison said, referring to the revelations about Lance Armstrong and US Postal Service in the USADA report of last October. "In the previous era of cycling, I guess the teams did a cost-benefit analysis and the best way to invest their limited amount of resource for some teams was to invest in doctors and doping programmes, and coaching suffered. That's left a window of opportunity for us. Quite uniquely, in this sport the development of coaching systems has been retarded by the effects of the last decade."

In his three years in cycling, Kerrison, a former swimming coach at the Queensland Academy of Sport, said he has been "massively" surprised by what he has found in terms of coaching, or the lack of it.

"It's still a shock how unstructured a lot of other riders and teams are. Swimmers very rarely do anything without a coach, rowing a bit more, but in cycling a huge amount of training is done without a coach. The concept of coaching seems to be hit and miss: some teams have a coach; some teams leave their riders to their own devices; in some thedirecteurs sportifs oversee what they do between races but we know it's hard for them."

Kerrison says he believes Sky are the only professional team that offers dedicated one-to-one coaching to all its riders – they have four full-time coaches at present – and notes that other teams are looking to the British squad, whether it be warming down after stages, or sending whole detachments to train at altitude in Tenerife. "Everyone is now following our lead in things like warm-downs; more and more teams have coaching staff. I genuinely hope it's the start of a new era in cycling."

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magnkarl Grand Master

magnkarl

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I think that the fact that the Sky train got torn to shreds today probably shows that they're clean. At the time of US Postal they were dragging the peleton every single day and pulled back almost every breakaway. Not so sure about Froome, but his team looks rather human to me. Port is a good example of this, one day he rode like a machine, the other day he came in 3 minutes after the leaders.

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leviramsey Enthusiast

leviramsey

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I know we're covering old ground, but the justifications Sky are putting forth (superior tactical nous, knowing the stages inside and out, development, etc.) are the same as were put forth as justifications for US Postal. And the scenario is similar: team from a growth/non-traditional cycling market with media connections (i.e. one that means $$$ for the UCI/ASO/etc.) suddenly starts dominating with Liggett (and Sherwen? What with the nature of the split commentary, we don't get much Sherwen in the US feed) more or less totally in the tank for them. That said (I just got a chance to post after watching today's stage):

Porte and the rest of the the team (bar Froome, who of course didn't do that much the day before) crashing and burning I think gives me more confidence in Sky riding clean.

Is it just me or does Irish + Brummie sound rather Australian?

I have to rely on Liggett for this, but he was commenting that this weekend was like a throwback to the 70s with the reversals of fortune from one day to another.

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leviramsey Enthusiast

leviramsey

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Movistar are of course a ‘clean’ team; under another guise they had Pedro Delgado, Big Mig and now Valverde...

I'll add another to my list of eerie similarities: the perhaps jingoistic proclaiming from the team's countrymen fans that the team is 100% clean, often by deflecting into accusations that the teams that are getting beaten (it was T-Mobile and CSC back then) are riding dirty, [perhaps] without realizing that that's a rather strong piece of circumstantial evidence for doping.

(I speak from personal experience)

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PauloBarnesi Newbie

PauloBarnesi

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People who seem to find similarities between USPS and Sky are always going to find similarities, but there are as many differences if people want to. Sky probably has more in common with La vie Claire than it does with USPS. I do honestly believe that Sky with the experience of track cycling (which USPS riders/coaches came from the track???) and other sports are pretty unique in cycling

 

People want to put Sky under scrutiny, yet when other teams are put under scrutiny we have claims of jingoism? I have no idea if Movistar are running a clean team, or Saxo Tinkoff, just the connections with doping is not just a random one, but well documented. You can point Sky had ex-dopers on team Sean Yates, Bobby Jullich and the client of Ferrari, Michael Rogers. 

 

I am no more a fan of Sky, than I am of Garmin or Orica Greenedge. I am a fan of clean cycling with healthy scepticism of everyone, but I can’t bear the fingers being pointed with no real evidence, nor any rumours. 

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magnkarl Grand Master

magnkarl

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If Sky should be blamed for anything then it's misusing riders like Edvald Hagen and Thomas. EBH used to be the biggest talent in cycling, his O2 uptake is second only to Ullrich in cycling history and if he took off 2-3 kilos and was allowed to go for the GC, I think he'd probably win TDF and Dauphine. It's even more stupid that Sky didn't even bother to work for Edvald's yellow jersey three days ago. If I was Edvald I'd be looking elsewhere, tho I think Sky are paying him an insane amount of money to be a luxoury helper for Froome.

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Mark8691 Newbie

Mark8691

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Anyone else spot the Villa flag/banner on yesterday's stage 9? It covered the windscreen of one of the campers/rv's (whateever they're bloody called! :) ) as they were climbing one of the mountains.

 

Froome for the win it seems! Shame Nibali isnt in this one, he dominated the Giro and might have offered some interesting competition for Froome. Though still would back Froome for this year's tour.

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PauloBarnesi Newbie

PauloBarnesi

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If Sky should be blamed for anything then it's misusing riders like Edvald Hagen and Thomas. EBH used to be the biggest talent in cycling, his O2 uptake is second only to Ullrich in cycling history and if he took off 2-3 kilos and was allowed to go for the GC, I think he'd probably win TDF and Dauphine. It's even more stupid that Sky didn't even bother to work for Edvald's yellow jersey three days ago. If I was Edvald I'd be looking elsewhere, tho I think Sky are paying him an insane amount of money to be a luxoury helper for Froome.

The highest VO2 max in procycling is reckoned to be Greg Lemond at 92.5; Indurain was 88 (Øyvind Leonhardsen was 80!)

 

EBH problem isn’t Sky, EBH problem is EBH. He just doesn’t have the killer instinct to back up his natural talent which is as a classics rider. He isn’t suited to be a GC winner

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magnkarl Grand Master

magnkarl

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Cav back at his antics I see. He should be thrown out to teach him a lesson. He seriously endangered the other rider's life there - crashing in 72km's on a bike. I remember he did something like this when Hushovd beat him to the green a couple of years back, he tried to push Hushovd in to the barriers. What a kid - if he doesn't win it's all the toys out of the pram.

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PauloBarnesi Newbie

PauloBarnesi

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Not sure what the rules are on that must be at the judges discretion, they seem to think no foul play. You can find a lot of highly knowledgable experts giving opinions both ways on this.

 

Looked to me that Cav didn’t like being forced out of line and took it out on the guy (who I think knew what he was doing), realised he’d overdone it and gave up in sprint. I personally think he should have been demoted. Think being thrown out would have been harsh and I can’t see anyone saying it should have been that way.

 

Cavendish must wish he hadn’t left Sky; OPQS seem to be pretty poor tbh at doing the train. 

 

Did anyone see Cav steal the journalists phone when he asked a question he didn’t like? :) https://vine.co/v/h76bmVrBJwm

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OutByEaster? Grand Master

OutByEaster?

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I thought that the rider drifted into the line Cavendish wanted - Cavendish took the hump and gave him 'Have that' in a very deliberate way. 

 

He looked guilty as sin whilst he was behaving like an arrogant pillock with the press and it's a pity that journo didn't just slap him and take his tape recorder back.

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