leviramsey Posted October 13, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2012 If the doping expert is hired by the rider, can he be said to be independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 http://goo.gl/HRLrx Good article - first other than kimmage to ask questions of current and 'new age' teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffGreens Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 5 live had a special report on this evening - 7pm until 9pm, no doubt it'll be on the iplayer later. Listening though, there isn't much that isn't already public knowledge. They've got interviews with Tyler Hamilton, Emma O'Reilly, a few other riders who names escape me along with Dick Pound and Michael Ashenden. FiveLive link can be found here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Seems that Oakley are trying to remove Armstrong references in the UK, but Nike are standing by their man. Maybe because its been suggested Nike gave $500000 to Hein Veinbruggen to cover up the 1999 test... Hats off to those who called this and stood up to the ç word; Kathy, Greg, Basson, Betsy, Emma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Seems that Oakley are trying to remove Armstrong references in the UK, but Nike are standing by their man. Maybe because its been suggested Nike gave $500000 to Hein Veinbruggen to cover up the 1999 test... Hats off to those who called this and stood up to the ç word; Kathy, Greg, Basson, Betsy, Emma... Wow - have never heard that. That would leave Nike's image in tatters too. I'm sure you were impressed with Phil's comments yesterday Paulo? Utterly utterly ludicrous. Does anyone think Lance will confess? I think the pressure on him to respond will grow and grow, and if he denies it again now after the media have ditched him he'll probably only harm what's left of his reputation even more (if possible!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted October 16, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted October 16, 2012 Despite USADA's evidence Liggett remains Armstrong's supporter Tv commentator says he's been made to "look like a fool" Phil Liggett, who has in the past criticized USADA’s case against Lance Armstrong and often defended the Texan, has given his first reaction since the anti-doping agency released their 1,000 page submission into doping in the US Postal team. Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour titles by USADA after a damning investigation that included testimony from 26 individuals, 11 of whom were former teammmates. Liggett has been a constant supporter of Armstrong through the rider’s career and through numerous doping allegations. He admitted to not having read the report, with his information having been received second-hand through news sources. He told Cyclingnews: “It is a witch hunt, lets face it, because they only want Lance. Call it what you like, the fact is they only have one ambition and that’s to get Lance.” Liggett, who has commented on the Tour de France for a number of television networks in a career that has spanned 40 years and 35 Tours, added that he was still a supporter of Armstrong, despite the fact the revelations around Armstrong's doping had made him ‘look like a fool’. “If he’s been taking drugs then of course it’s right [to sanction] but they still lack the absolute proof as far as I’m aware. I still am a supporter of Armstrong. Whatever way we look at it Lance has been good for the sport. No one can condone, if it’s finally proved, that he’s ridden his whole career on drugs. I had an email from an eminent scientist from the US yesterday. An SMS actually. It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago. He’s an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man. I don’t know his name, the SMS came from a secondary person.” In August, Liggett had claimed that witnesses had been paid for giving evidence against Lance Armstrong in the agency's investigation into doping and conspiracy – the veteran commentator still appeared to defend Armstrong, regardless of whether he had cheated. Liggett's claims were immediately rebuffed by USADA. “He has been the best athlete in the world and the drugs have not made him that much better, He’d have probably still have won on a level playing field and still been the champion. He’s also brought a lot of happiness to a lot of people and no one seems to have taken this into account and introduced a lot of bike riders into the sport and into cycling as a pastime.” Liggett’s assertion that Armstrong had brought happiness is at odds with USADA’s report, in which the disgraced cyclist is accused of helping to run a systematic doping regime, with intimidation an employed tactic. “Of course you feel cheated. As a commentator you’ve made these guys super heroes and in frankness it’s made you see a bit of a fool to say the least but we were only fools in retrospect.” Liggett added that Tyler Hamilton’s book, The Secret Race, had been an awakening. Having criticized Hamilton in the past, Liggett said: “I don’t believe it’s possible to write a book like Tyler Hamilton has done without it being the truth. I don’t think it’s possible. Everyone has read the book. There has to be a lot of truth in book but at the end of the day there has be a shadow of doubt.” “But I’ve no reason not to support Armstrong. I don’t know. He told me to his face that he didn’t and I had no reason not to believe it. Don’t forget, on television we don’t actually mix with the riders. I call the pictures as I see them.” In August, Liggett also stated that he would retire if Armstrong had been proven as a drug cheat. The UCI has to either ratify or appeal USADA’s case but Liggett said that his future had already been decided by future contracts. “I can’t [retire] because of contracts that have been signed that will not let me walk away. If I had no contracts signed I’d be ready to give up the sport now. I’ll be 70 years old next year and there are still things I want to do with my life. I can’t walk away because of contracts I’ve signed until 2016. I do find it depressing at times.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wow - have never heard that. That would leave Nike's image in tatters too. I'm sure you were impressed with Phil's comments yesterday Paulo? Utterly utterly ludicrous. Does anyone think Lance will confess? I think the pressure on him to respond will grow and grow, and if he denies it again now after the media have ditched him he'll probably only harm what's left of his reputation even more (if possible!). Think of it this way; Tour de France’s jersey sponsored by Nike. Nike sponsor star athlete on multi million dollar contract. The possibility that executives at Nike decided that the golden goose couldn’t be found guilty of doping, and a willing president of the UCI to accept money, it becomes very possible and something I had suspected a long time ago. I hate Phil Liggett with a passion. His & the gold miners reputations are in tatters. As for Armstrong, I don’t think he will confess. What depresses me is that people like Schleck think its irrelevant today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 5 live had a special report on this evening - 7pm until 9pm, no doubt it'll be on the iplayer later. Listening though, there isn't much that isn't already public knowledge. They've got interviews with Tyler Hamilton, Emma O'Reilly, a few other riders who names escape me along with Dick Pound and Michael Ashenden. FiveLive link can be found here This is well worth a listen. Millar immediately went on the PR drive about how clean the sport was now and the enormous amount of work that had been done, despite Dick Pound, Michael Ashenden, Tyler, and Matt Dicanio all saying there was still serious problems in cycling and in wider sport - I only wish they'd challenged him on it directly. It's amazing that Ashenden didn't bother watching the olympics he's so unconvinced by the integrity of the performances. Great programme though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 As for Armstrong, I don’t think he will confess. What depresses me is that people like Schleck think its irrelevant today... Schleck showed exactly where he stands when he begrudgingly won the 2010 Tour because of Contador's positive - I reckon he still considers Contador to be the winner; Alberto certainly does. It's clearly not the done thing in the omerta to take your rightful win when someone else gets caught. Unless they actually confess to it in which case they are immediately thrown under the bus. Schleck and Contador are likely to be challenging for Tour for the next 5/6/7 years - doesn't exactly fill you with confidence that the dark days are behind us. It's clear that the omerta is still very much in place - does that definitely mean the drugs are still there too? Or is it just the attitudes regarding the past? It's just as easy to beat the tests now as it was 10 years ago, if you were a doper why would you stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 These are quite interesting podcasts They think that its entirely possible that Schleck (F) and Contador’s failed drug tests were the work of Bruyneel, who is a massive ç word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Nike dump Armstrong Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner. Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Team Sky make riders and staff sign anti-doping pledge Team Sky has told its riders and management to sign a pledge declaring they have never doped - otherwise they face being thrown off the squad. The move follows the damaging case of Lance Armstrong, who has been accused of being a serial drugs cheat. "We will ask everyone to sign up to a written policy, confirming that they have no past or present involvement in doping," said Team Sky. "Should anyone choose not to sign up, they will have to leave the team." The team, which includes Tour de France winner Bradley Wiggins, runner-up Chris Froome and top sprinter Mark Cavendish, has always been explicitly anti-doping and says it wants to "reaffirm" its commitment to a clean sport. Team Sky boss Dave Brailsford informed his charges of the policy on the first day of their end-of-season camp. He told BBC Radio 5 live: "Given what's happened in the last couple of weeks it's important that we sit down and take this seriously. "I've worked in Olympic sport for a long time and times have been getting quicker as riders go faster and faster but in the Tour de France times have been getting slower which contrasts with what happens in the normal progression of sport. "There's only one explanation and it's because the sport has cleaned up. "We've had a brilliant summer and won the Tour de France clean with a clean British rider but when there are more difficult issues to address let's confront them." The Team Sky statement continued: "We are making this statement because we believe it is important to be open about the steps we are taking. "We want a team in which riders are free of the risks of doping and in which fans - new and old - can believe without any doubt or hesitation. "There is no place in Team Sky for those with an involvement in doping, whether past or present. This applies to management, support staff and riders." ...more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Seems an entirely pointless PR excercise that, Snowster. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Seems an entirely pointless PR excercise that, Snowster. What do you think? I suppose that Brailsford is at least showing his face on the subject. I see the point, though, that just affirming that you are clean and always have been doesn't mean that you are and have been. Tbh, my view on all of sport is that it's a lot murkier than anyone would dare to admit or the watching public would wish to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 takes their blood every day and publishes their analysis of it with their opinion every evening. That would be a truly impressive tour winner. I wonder how the blood passport system works. I take a few litres of my own blood out in the winter and then turn up for the tour with a hemocrit level of lets say 45%. I then use my own blood to boost that to 49.9% right before the start of the tour and my first blood test. Then daily throughout the tour I inject a little more of my blood into my system to top up my hemocrit level and keep it just below the magic 50% level allowed. Would I be caught, am I a doper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffGreens Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 As I understand it, they've developed tests to measure the maturity (and levels thereof) of red blood cells in tests, so ones that had been removed and reinfused (not forgetting they're technically "alive" during this time as well) would show up as mature cells. So I'd imagine they'd be able to notice a spike blood levels that wasn't present in out of competition dope controls (unless you'd managed to keep your blood cells artificially "old" during these tests as well) - so probably yes you'd get caught, you big dirty cheating doper you =P Edit. And in a move that will probably surprise no one (given it's been an open secret for a few weeks now), Mark Cavendish is off to Omega-Pharma-Quickstep next year (according to the gospel of sky sports news). Edit 2: In regards to your original point, everyone's favourite font of knowledge claims WADA is rather tight-lipped on any test for autologous transfusions (i.e. your own blood back into your body) - there are a couple of suggested methods in the article though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I wonder if Bobby Julich and Sean Yates will sign it? Talk is cheap. It's time Sky lived up to their promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Rabobank pull out This shows the fall out from this is massive. Rabobank have stood by cycling through some of its darkest moments, and quite sensibly have had enough. My growing concerns (and dislike) over Armstrong through the late 90s, early 00s have been proven to be correct. He screwed everyone, including the sport. And worse he was abetted in this by the UCI and the dreadful person that is Hein Vebruggen. Bradley’s SPOTY is looking screwed now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Armo stripped of all his TDF wins by the UCI! Finally. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20008520 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Depressing stuff. So the "winners" of the Tours for the years Armstrong "won" are 1999 Escartin (3rd) 2000 Escartin (8th) 2001 Kivilev (4th) 2002 Azevedo (6th) 2003 Zubeldia (6th) 2004 Azevedo (5th) 2005 Evans (8th) Depressing that in 2000 and 2008, you have to go to 8th place to find a rider who wasn't (well hasn't been caught or outed) as a drug user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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