gharperr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) What percentage of the regular overly opinionated VT posters discussing players and tactics on the main board have actually played football at a level greater than 'jumpers for goalposts'. Im wondering why this is even matters? You only have to look at 90%+ of ex football pundits to tell this doesnt really matter at all. Edited August 23, 2015 by gharperr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 What percentage of the regular overly opinionated VT posters discussing players and tactics on the main board have actually played football at a level greater than 'jumpers for goalposts'. Im wondering why this is even matters? You only have to look at 90%+ of ex football pundits to tell this doesnt really matter at all. They're paid to give an opinion, even if it's Niall Quinn utter shite, and they don't criticise others opinions like they're blathering idiots. There are people on the main forum who clearly haven't played football properly and yet criticise players/tactics, and more significantly, other people's opinions of players/tactics when it's completely obvious their own experience goes no further than Football Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) They're paid to give an opinion, even if it's Niall Quinn utter shite, and they don't criticise others opinions like they're blathering idiots. But thats the point. They shouldnt be shite because theyve played football at the highest level. Their tactical understanding should be amazing, but sadly it doesnt come across like that at all. (if what youre saying is true) There are people on the main forum who clearly haven't played football properly and yet criticise players/tactics, and more significantly If you think you have to have played football at a highish level to be able to develop/learn an understanding of football/tactics then youre silly. Theres a TON of information online if you really want to learn. other people's opinions of players/tactics when it's completely obvious their own experience goes no further than Football Manager. This whole "football manager" insult has to be one of the most cringeworthy comment there is. Some guy disagrees with you? youre just an FM idiot who doesnt understand real football because you dont agree with me. Im curious to know how high of a level of football you have played at to be able to tell if people are FM idiots or have an actual understanding of "real" football. It must be pretty dam high to call people idiots. Almost feels youre doing the exact same as the people youre trying to blast for it. Also when you say jumpers for goalposts. Do you mean just playing casually with friends? Or sunday league? Or do i have to have played semi-pro to be able to comment on tactics? You have to go pretty high league/serious about football for tactics to go any further than just what the formation is Edited August 23, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Would less than a hundred games in the Portugese second division 30 years ago be sufficient to be allowed an opinion on football? Gerrard Houllier and Carlos Parreira really want to know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 What percentage of the regular overly opinionated VT posters discussing players and tactics on the main board have actually played football at a level greater than 'jumpers for goalposts'. Im wondering why this is even matters? You only have to look at 90%+ of ex football pundits to tell this doesnt really matter at all. true. i find if you parse through these threads on vt, you find some very sound reasoning and good judgement about players and tactics its like a....microcosm or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 They're paid to give an opinion, even if it's Niall Quinn utter shite, and they don't criticise others opinions like they're blathering idiots. But thats the point. They shouldnt be shite because theyve played football at the highest level. Their tactical understanding should be amazing, but sadly it doesnt come across like that at all. (if what youre saying is true)There are people on the main forum who clearly haven't played football properly and yet criticise players/tactics, and more significantly If you think you have to have played football at a highish level to be able to develop/learn an understanding of football/tactics then youre silly. Theres a TON of information online if you really want to learn. other people's opinions of players/tactics when it's completely obvious their own experience goes no further than Football Manager. This whole "football manager" insult has to be one of the most cringeworthy comment there is. Some guy disagrees with you? youre just an FM idiot who doesnt understand real football because you dont agree with me. Im curious to know how high of a level of football you have played at to be able to tell if people are FM idiots or have an actual understanding of "real" football. It must be pretty dam high to call people idiots. Almost feels youre doing the exact same as the people youre trying to blast for it. Also when you say jumpers for goalposts. Do you mean just playing casually with friends? Or sunday league? Or do i have to have played semi-pro to be able to comment on tactics? You have to go pretty high league/serious about football for tactics to go any further than just what the formation is No, I never played any higher than Sunday League since leaving school, but I played week in week out for ten years or so, I consider myself fairly well versed on the subject. There's a ton of information on every sport available online, reading all about Formula 1 for a weekend certainly wouldn't qualify me to criticise a drivers performance to the same degree as the VTers do some our players/tactics. Maybe if I'd spent ten years racing, I'd feel like I'd have much more a valid point to make. I've never used the term 'FM Idiot' as an insult to someone, in fairness I don't think I've ever criticised someone else's opinion on here, you're all as entitled to it as I am, and it'd be a very dull place if we all thought the same. I don't care if people don't agree with me on an Internet forum, and I've never said otherwise. The point I was making was there seems to be a large proportion of posters who's understanding of the game seems to stem from playing games and not playing the sport. Jumpers for goalposts reference is just that, Jumpers for goalposts. It's not a personal attack on anyone, I'm expressing my opinion on the content and quality of the main VT board and what I believe is causing it, if your opinion of my opinion is different, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Positioning the argument another way, would you not trust the opinion of someone who played 'proper' football (11s) for any period of time over that of someone that only ever played with mates over the park? Who would you rather talk football with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Whoever has decided to take the time to learn about tactics. Ill be amazed if your sunday league football training sessions went any further (or indepth) than just random fitness/kicking a ball about in a formation. Ill be amazed if an average random guy who has played sunday league who goes to work 9-5, kicks a football about training once or twice a week and then plays a game on sunday automatically has a better understanding of tactics than a guy who has spent time learning about it in his spare time. I know a couple of people who play sunday league football, and i know for a fact they know nothing other than what a formation is and theyve never took the time to try understand. If i mentioned gegenpressing to them, they wouldnt have a scooby what i was talking about. (one example showing how you can learn stuff on the interwebs which you wont be able to at your average sunday league game) Edited August 23, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Listen, I took Peterborough to 3 consecutive Premier League titles on Champ Manager 2 in the mid 90's, so you can all **** off 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whoever has decided to take the time to learn about tactics. Ill be amazed if your sunday league football training sessions went any further (or indepth) than just random fitness/kicking a ball about in a formation. Ill be amazed if an average random guy who has played sunday league who goes to work 9-5, kicks a football about training once or twice a week and then plays a game on sunday automatically has a better understanding of tactics than a guy who has spent time learning about it in his spare time. I know a couple of people who play sunday league football, and i know for a fact they know nothing other than what a formation is and theyve never took the time to try understand. If i mentioned gegenpressing to them, they wouldnt have a scooby what i was talking about. (one example showing how you can learn stuff on the interwebs which you wont be able to at your average sunday league game) So we disagree, I'm sure our individual inputs on the main VT board, you with your 'gegenpressing' and me with my 'put it in the mixer' approach will only compliment each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whoever has decided to take the time to learn about tactics. Ill be amazed if your sunday league football training sessions went any further (or indepth) than just random fitness/kicking a ball about in a formation. Ill be amazed if an average random guy who has played sunday league who goes to work 9-5, kicks a football about training once or twice a week and then plays a game on sunday automatically has a better understanding of tactics than a guy who has spent time learning about it in his spare time. I wouldn't. Not in the slightest. You're right that people who have never played proper football can have a good understanding of the game. But I think there are things you learn by actually playing the game, at any sort of decent level, that the average fan can't learn just from watching the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) can you give me an example of something i wouldnt/shouldnt be able to understand because i only played football until i was 14/15 when it comes to tactics? Curious now Edited August 23, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) can you give me an example of something i wouldnt/shouldnt be able to understand because i only played football until i was 14/15 when it comes to tactics? Curious now There are dozens and dozens of things that people might be unaware of. One I came upon recently was playing a high line in defence. A guy at work was adamant that it was the best way to play, but when I asked him why he had no idea why teams actually play a high line, and similarly the disadvantages to it. It's simple, but anybody who has played a decent amount of football could tell you that. I didn't say you wouldn't know that or any other tactical stuff. Neither did I say nobody who had never played football to a decent level. I said the average fan. I would say it would be a decent assumption that somebody who has played football at a decent level would have a better knowledge of tactics than your average fan who has never properly played the sport. Edited August 23, 2015 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Stevo knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Still not the most convinced tbh. And think its incredibly easy for that "average random fan who has only watched sport" to get to the same level as the average sunday league football player. And its gone quite a bit off topic from the original point. From what i hear about sunday league its mostly just training for fitness and working on your technical ability than it is tactics. So i dont think the average sunday league player really knows that much more. Maybe just a tiny bit. This is going major offtopic from what this thread is about. but as were talking about the main forum and tactics. The biggest problem of casual fans imo, is that a lot of them look at the direct immediate result to decide whether tactics were good or bad. Oh we lost? Tactics were bad from our manager. We won? tactics were good. It could have been the same tactics and it would be good or bad depending on the result. It really bothers me. Way more than it should Edited August 23, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's nothing to do with training. Training could involve drinking down the pub for all I care. It's being placed in real match situations. You learn stuff by playing the sport that is difficult (but possible) to learn from purely watching it. You can have somebody who knows the all the formations and tactics there are. But they might lack an understanding of even the most basic tactics, or HOW to play them, because they've not played the sport. It's stuff you know without even realising that you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Still not the most convinced tbh. And think its incredibly easy for that "average random fan who has only watched sport" to get to the same level as the average sunday league football player. And its gone quite a bit off topic from the original point. From what i hear about sunday league its mostly just training for fitness and working on your technical ability than it is tactics. So i dont think the average sunday league player really knows that much more. Maybe just a tiny bit. This is going major offtopic from what this thread is about. but as were talking about the main forum and tactics. The biggest problem of casual fans imo, is that a lot of them look at the direct immediate result to decide whether tactics were good or bad. Oh we lost? Tactics were bad from our manager. We won? tactics were good. It could have been the same tactics and it would be good or bad depending on the result. It really bothers me. Way more than it should You don't have to be convinced mate, I don't think it would unfair to say we both have a good knowledge of football, maybe from completely different angles. I used to DJ, I spent years working in and around the scene, talking to DJs, studying the art form, the technology, the technical aspects and the whole lifestyle, I didn't learn anything of any value until I got behind turntables and started playing out, there's a big difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Still not the most convinced tbh. And think its incredibly easy for that "average random fan who has only watched sport" to get to the same level as the average sunday league football player. And its gone quite a bit off topic from the original point. From what i hear about sunday league its mostly just training for fitness and working on your technical ability than it is tactics. So i dont think the average sunday league player really knows that much more. Maybe just a tiny bit. This is going major offtopic from what this thread is about. but as were talking about the main forum and tactics. The biggest problem of casual fans imo, is that a lot of them look at the direct immediate result to decide whether tactics were good or bad. Oh we lost? Tactics were bad from our manager. We won? tactics were good. It could have been the same tactics and it would be good or bad depending on the result. It really bothers me. Way more than it should You don't have to be convinced mate, I don't think it would unfair to say we both have a good knowledge of football, maybe from completely different angles. I used to DJ, I spent years working in and around the scene, talking to DJs, studying the art form, the technology, the technical aspects and the whole lifestyle, I didn't learn anything of any value until I got behind turntables and started playing out, there's a big difference. yeah, but if I'm at the club listening to you spin and i think you suck, is my opinion less legitimate because i've never deejayed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Still not the most convinced tbh. And think its incredibly easy for that "average random fan who has only watched sport" to get to the same level as the average sunday league football player. And its gone quite a bit off topic from the original point. From what i hear about sunday league its mostly just training for fitness and working on your technical ability than it is tactics. So i dont think the average sunday league player really knows that much more. Maybe just a tiny bit. This is going major offtopic from what this thread is about. but as were talking about the main forum and tactics. The biggest problem of casual fans imo, is that a lot of them look at the direct immediate result to decide whether tactics were good or bad. Oh we lost? Tactics were bad from our manager. We won? tactics were good. It could have been the same tactics and it would be good or bad depending on the result. It really bothers me. Way more than it should You don't have to be convinced mate, I don't think it would unfair to say we both have a good knowledge of football, maybe from completely different angles. I used to DJ, I spent years working in and around the scene, talking to DJs, studying the art form, the technology, the technical aspects and the whole lifestyle, I didn't learn anything of any value until I got behind turntables and started playing out, there's a big difference. yeah, but if I'm at the club listening to you spin and i think you suck, is my opinion less legitimate because i've never deejayed? If you think the music I'm playing is shit, so be it, but don't question my technique boy [emoji1] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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