John_Lerwill Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse. I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. The last TWO games, mate ... come on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Excuse after excuse after excuse. So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. As simple as that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 GH has shown quite a few things, hampered by what he has inherited. Some have said that he has tried to change things too quickly, and maybe that is a fair criticism. With the injury list he has had it's not surprising that there was a severe slippage ... the Chelsea match should have given us hope ... let's see how it goes.Sorry, John, but constantly citing the Chelsea match is clutching at straws. Chelsea really were shockingly poor - witness their next result against Wolves - and yet we came within a whisker let them sneak a win. I think the preceding and subsequent results against Man C and Sunderland are more an indication of where we are right now. Have you ever heard that how the opposition plays can have an affect? Villa's tactics were much praised for that match - the only defficiency was the now regular one of letting in goals in the last 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-67 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Perhaps now Hodgson has been sacked by Plop, Randy will go the same way as he didn't want to move first. Hodgson won only 7 of his 20 games in charge. I'd love to have that record!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Excuse after excuse after excuse. So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. As simple as that?Well, it's a reasonable enough benchmark to start off with, isn't it? If you accepted every new manager would lead inevitably to a decline, there would be far fewer changes of manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think Redknapp had them problems so you can't even compare them...He spent over 20 million in the January also...Has Houllier had the chance to spend that much money yet? Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse. I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. The last TWO games, mate ... come on! It hasn't just been the last two, and regardless, I still wonder how the return of so-called 'Senior' players is intrinsic to an upturn in our fortunes. If anything the senior players this year have been an utter disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You know, people are talking about this affair as being a 'debate', but I see too many people throwing in their arguments based on emotion rather than fact and the reality of what has happened this season. Now - read my lips! Houllier is NOT faultless, but where the team is now is recoverable, and he can achieve it. Furthermore he has the vision to take Villa lot further than MON could have done. Those are my final words ... exit and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 John there is a major difference in quality with the player he did have to what we have now though. Especially the strikers. Those better players didn't finish above us that year. Regardless of the quality the situation shows that a good manager can have an instant impact and not fail for months. So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. Read, I've already said a drop from last season is to be expected but to drop as far as we have is an utter disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Excuse after excuse after excuse. So a new manager should have the same standard of performance as the previous manager, no question. As simple as that?Well, it's a reasonable enough benchmark to start off with, isn't it? If you accepted every new manager would lead inevitably to a decline, there would be far fewer changes of manager! So now its a reasonable benchmark. Should he have the same results and level of performance, yes or no? He has the same defence, he should defend the exact same way should it not , as simple as that; nothing else could possibly effect it? How about the fact that MON is not managing a defence he built? Look Houllier has been a bit shit, but to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid.I don't think that's the argument. It's not because he has the same players (he doesn't). It just seems a reasonable expectation of a new manager that he will do at least as well as the manager he replaced, and hopefully a bit better. Otherwise, what would be the point in changing managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid.I don't think that's the argument. It's not because he has the same players (he doesn't). It just seems a reasonable expectation of a new manager that he will do at least as well as the manager he replaced, and hopefully a bit better. Otherwise, what would be the point in changing managers? Err we didn't change manager by choice did we? I agree there should be a certain level. I just think that a combination of some shocking injuries and the now obvious powerful influence MON had on the place and players, its not just that easy. Houllier has been very poor, its not all his own doing though. Unless results improve he should leave quick sharp too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid.I don't think that's the argument. It's not because he has the same players (he doesn't). It just seems a reasonable expectation of a new manager that he will do at least as well as the manager he replaced, and hopefully a bit better. Otherwise, what would be the point in changing managers? Only we didn't sack MON. He walked out. Whatever his reasons for walking out, if he were confident in the squad that he already had, he would have stayed. Because he would have known that he would have been able to at least compete on the same level this season as we did last season. It almost goes without saying that MON knew his squad was in decline, because he really wanted to spend some money on new recruits and it wasn't forthcoming without shipping out all the deadwood. He knew he couldn't ship out all the deadwood and get a decent enough return on it to improve the squad. He knew it was going to be a difficult season and he ran away from it. He wouldn't have been rowing with the CEO in the first place if he knew that his squad was good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJVilla Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My main problem, is that if we take the worst case scenario of us needing at least a point against Liverpool on the final day, who here would actually be confident of GH getting us that given his affections for them? Im not suggesting he'd lose deliberately, but I'd imagine a lot of hatred and anger if it was a result like that that puts us down. As previous posters have already commented, to stay in the division shouldn't be seen as either a) a successful season or an achievement. We are Aston Villa FC. We don't have a divine right to anything, but to take a team from 6th to 3rd bottom within the space of 6 months is disgusting. Essentially he's come in and tried to fix what wasn't really broken. I hope the January window see's us bring in some of GH's players so then we can at least see what he's capable of. At the moment Im not confident of us getting a win in any match at the moment (I know that sounds unbelievably pessimistic), but the way we're playing and the lack of passion and confidence from the players is completely detrimental to our current situation. With that in mind, I think whether GH is here for much longer or not, its going to be a long harder season than any of us could ever have imagined once MON threw his toys out of the pram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-67 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My main problem, is that if we take the worst case scenario of us needing at least a point against Liverpool on the final day, who here would actually be confident of GH getting us that given his affections for them? Im not suggesting he'd lose deliberately, but I'd imagine a lot of hatred and anger if it was a result like that that puts us down. As previous posters have already commented, to stay in the division shouldn't be seen as either a) a successful season or an achievement. We are Aston Villa FC. We don't have a divine right to anything, but to take a team from 6th to 3rd bottom within the space of 6 months is disgusting. Essentially he's come in and tried to fix what wasn't really broken. I hope the January window see's us bring in some of GH's players so then we can at least see what he's capable of. At the moment Im not confident of us getting a win in any match at the moment (I know that sounds unbelievably pessimistic), but the way we're playing and the lack of passion and confidence from the players is completely detrimental to our current situation. With that in mind, I think whether GH is here for much longer or not, its going to be a long harder season than any of us could ever have imagined once MON threw his toys out of the pram. Top post. Totally agree. The more Villa look to bring in loan signings instead of shelling out money, the more it says to me that Randy doesn't trust GH to pull us out of the current position. Why spend money for a man you're going to sack? GH's position is currently untenable. I'd really like it to work but I think we've spiralled out of GH's control. I hate the vitriolic posts on here, personal abuse is unforgivable but I just think he lacks the ability to pull it round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If Houllier gets the players he wants in this window and keeps us up then fair play to him. He will then have the summer to get rid of the rest of the troublemakers and bring in more of his own players and the future would be a lot brighter for next season and beyond. I hope that happens, I really do. The fact of the matter is, no matter what's happened to get us to this siutation, who honestly thinks that Houllier will get us out of this mess and keep us up? I mean, even if he brings in Bridge to play left back, Makoun to play CM, maybe Mbokani to play Striker and another 1 or 2 to help out in other areas, who thinks that he will keep us in this league? Those players will need time to settle no doubt. Foreign players usually take time to adjust to the Premier League so there's no guarantees they will even be better than what we already have. If he brings new players in and puts them straight into the team in place of the likes of Warnock, Cuellar, Petrov, Gabby etc, won't that alienate those players even more? If the new guys fail to do well then we will need those other experienced players to come in and get us out of the shit. These are players that he may have already pissed off and replacing them may be the straw that breaks the donkey's back. There are clearly issues with regards to how the players have reacted to him since he came here. Everyone seems to be blaming the players for having shitty attitudes and maybe we have the right to, but, what if the shitty attitude came from Houllier? What if he is the one who has the worst attitude problem? It's ok saying get rid of all the troublemakers but what if there are 10 of them? are we really going to replace 10 players with better quality players of the ball-playing type that Houllier wants? They won't be cheap and who can safely say that those new players won't find Houllier's tactics and training methods difficult to take to either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Furthermore he has the vision to take Villa lot further than MON could have done. and you are sure of this of course, the only thing he seems to have done is make us into a **** laughing stock so far, he has in six months turned us from at top 6 to a bottom 3 team, well done GH he should get the LMA aword for that, blame MON though eh, its his fault that GH couldn't manage a good shite for himself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Everyone seems to be blaming the players for having shitty attitudes and maybe we have the right to, but, what if the shitty attitude came from Houllier? Err im sorry mate but the majority here are blaming Houllier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Furthermore he has the vision to take Villa lot further than MON could have done. and you are sure of this of course, the only thing he seems to have done is make us into a **** laughing stock so far, he has in six months turned us from at top 6 to a bottom 3 team, well done GH he should get the LMA aword for that, blame MON though eh, its his fault that GH couldn't manage a good shite for himself.. There's a difference between vision and actually getting the job done. I think, given time, Houllier's more pragmatic approach will benefit Villa - something MON never had. He's happy to rotate his squad, bring in players from across the globe. That said, he is fighting an extremely steep up-hill battle that has been caused by himself to some extent, so whether he has that long-term opportunity to bring success to the club is doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 to claim he should just have the same performances just because he has the same players is stupid.I don't think that's the argument. It's not because he has the same players (he doesn't). It just seems a reasonable expectation of a new manager that he will do at least as well as the manager he replaced, and hopefully a bit better. Otherwise, what would be the point in changing managers? Only we didn't sack MON. He walked out. Whatever his reasons for walking out, if he were confident in the squad that he already had, he would have stayed. Because he would have known that he would have been able to at least compete on the same level this season as we did last season. It almost goes without saying that MON knew his squad was in decline, because he really wanted to spend some money on new recruits and it wasn't forthcoming without shipping out all the deadwood. He knew he couldn't ship out all the deadwood and get a decent enough return on it to improve the squad. He knew it was going to be a difficult season and he ran away from it. He wouldn't have been rowing with the CEO in the first place if he knew that his squad was good enough.Even if MON thougth the team was in decline, the team he left behind was still better than a botton three team. the botton line is GH hasn't done well eough with the squad he has, and for me over the next three games we will find out if he sinks or swims, because Randy cant let this go on much longer, see the yanks at Liverpool had the bottle to **** Woy out, lets hope Randy takes a leaf out of there book, they are only in the prem a wet day and they could see how shite Woy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 they are only in the prem a wet day and they could see how shite Woy is. Yeah shit manager that Roy Hodgson. Hasnt got a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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