Ginko Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't think anyone is under the illusion that we're out of the woods yet Big_John_10, but there's no harm in enjoying a good result and having a bit of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This article sums it up for me Richard, that's the Sun you're quoting from!! Whether Chelsea are not as good as last season is not an issue. We all know that how a team plays on the day depends on the opposition as much as anything. One thing is for sure ... the Villa were a damn sight better organised than they were in the corresponding fixture last March. Why don't we just see what happens over the next month. well said john, I'll bet the Chelsea camp wasn't busying themselves saying villa were poor today after the 7-1 drubbing last season. I don't give a flying toss what the opposition do all i care about is it what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 One thing is for sure ... the Villa were a damn sight better organised than they were in the corresponding fixture last March. How come this point isn't used when talking about other games under houllier? Now, now, BigJohn (writes another Big John ... you know as well as I that this match was at the crux of the re-birth of the season for Villa. And we are now into a New Year with Auld Lang Syne in our hearts. :winkold: I thought the performance against man u was very good and our following performances after that were poor so yesterdays game isn't going to convince me that the future is bright under houllier just yet. Fair comment - no disagreement with that. As I said, we have to see what the next month brings (you didn't quote that bit (?). However, the injuries' issue is mostly now over - the first time for quite a few games. Sunderland game is a big one, we have a fit squad who should have a bit of confidence now, we need to get something out of it. Yep, but I feel confident. Don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Especially when the hope is going to one of the toughest grounds in the country and outplaying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Yep, but I feel confident. Don't you? Not that this was aimed at me, but I certainly feel a lot more confident in the lads than I have recently, and I think we could get something from Sunderland on wednesday. But as much as I hate to admit it since they're managed by that gigantic expletive, Sunderland have impressed me this season and I think they will be very hard to beat. Let's not forget they beat Chelsea earlier this season, and quite convincingly too. They're a very good team at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ginko, you're right. If Villa win then it should be seen as a very good win ... not just 'a win'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The players have worked hard for the last few seasons, they have shown determination, grit and a huge amount of balls. they were a team that were never beaten. The team have beaten all of the big sides and come within a grasp of silverware. Now their manager has left and has been replaced by someone who critises them openly in the press and has tried to change everything about the way they play. I'm sure they used to pride themselves on their set piece record at both ends and now it is a shambles. He clearly has vendettas against some players based on previous encounters and is out to prove a point. I'm not saying the current attitude of player is acceptable or correct, but to say they get paid a fortune so they should always perform is a simplistic way of looking at things. When i've ha d a new boss in the past who acted like a git my effort reduced and I did what I had to do instead of going the extra mile. I'm not doubting your sentiments to be correct and I'm not suggesting that criticism in public is correct whether it be Carew saying Houllier is the seventh best manager i have worked for out of seven or whether the manager has openly criticised the players. The bottomline is Houllier and Martin O'Neill have different footballing philosophies and methods to take them there.... there will be transition and for some players/fans it will be nice and for some it won't be and a bit of resentment may come in to play. Right now, Houlliers case ain't strong, due to results, but what the future holds who knows he could go on to eclipse everything O'Neill has done with us ....what then, do we send an apology saying we reacted too hastily. Some fans on here could be right it might be just a matter of time before he goes....I don't know.What i do know is a manager with such a big task of transforming the playing style needs time to do so. Some may say but why does he need to change it, for one he is not Martin O'Neill and two maybe he doesn't believe in it. Martin O'Neills tenure wasn't everone's cup of tea( it wasn't mine, but i did wholeheatedly applaud some of his results i.e Man U away) 6-6-6 was very commendable but 7-7-10-8 wasn't and prompted a few season ticket holders like me to think again....hoof football was not my kind of entertainment and counter attacking football is one thing but being overrun in midfield constantly was not easy on my eye and resulting in breakaway goal to win a match was not my idea of development.....hey ho would'nt do for all of us to think the same. Gerard Houllier has acheived some success elsewhere he has credentials to support he fact that he may be able to repeat it again.... he needs a reasonable amount of time and the support O'Neill enjoyed to help him acheive it. I don't know which camp is right or wrong for or anti..... what i do believe in is fair play PS I accept managers will make mistakes, they all do including the best and they may say things in their defence that is best not said.... but hey they are only human. PPS... WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 7-7-10-8 What do these numbers mean? And in response to an earlier question, yes I feel more confident about getting something out of Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 7-7-10-8 What do these numbers mean? And in response to an earlier question, yes I feel more confident about getting something out of Sunderland. Home wins during Martins Tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-Copenhagen Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I can see the points in the Sun article, but in reality it only states the obvious; GH has not been able to field our best team for a long time and now he can + he has the opportunity to buy players. IF we get a win on Wednesday we are on the right path. One very interesting fact is that our wage bill is 7 mill lager than Spurs! That points a hard finger at MON for wasting money. Lets hope GH does better. And I don't care at all if our players like GH, as long as the fear him I am happy. We are never going to get in 4'th spot and lets just hope Spurs does not. That will give us a chance to catch up with them and keep Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The bottomline is Houllier and Martin O'Neill have different footballing philosophies and methods to take them there.... there will be transition and for some players/fans it will be nice and for some it won't be and a bit of resentment may come in to play. Right now, Houlliers case ain't strong, due to results, but what the future holds who knows he could go on to eclipse everything O'Neill has done with us ....what then, do we send an apology saying we reacted too hastily. Some fans on here could be right it might be just a matter of time before he goes....I don't know.What i do know is a manager with such a big task of transforming the playing style needs time to do so. Some may say but why does he need to change it, for one he is not Martin O'Neill and two maybe he doesn't believe in it. Martin O'Neills tenure wasn't everone's cup of tea( it wasn't mine, but i did wholeheatedly applaud some of his results i.e Man U away) 6-6-6 was very commendable but 7-7-10-8 wasn't and prompted a few season ticket holders like me to think again....hoof football was not my kind of entertainment and counter attacking football is one thing but being overrun in midfield constantly was not easy on my eye and resulting in breakaway goal to win a match was not my idea of development.....hey ho would'nt do for all of us to think the same. Gerard Houllier has acheived some success elsewhere he has credentials to support he fact that he may be able to repeat it again.... he needs a reasonable amount of time and the support O'Neill enjoyed to help him acheive it. I don't know which camp is right or wrong for or anti..... what i do believe in is fair play PS I accept managers will make mistakes, they all do including the best and they may saying things in their defence that is best not said.... but hey they are only human. PPS... WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM This is perhaps one of the best reasoned comments I have seen in a long time. It would seem to me that MON's "achievements" were achieved almost by stealth ... it was always clear that Villa fell away in the second (and most crucial) half of the season. To my mind, MON could only have been more successful at Villa by spending huge amounts of money, but even that may have failed as buying the very best players to play his style would seem to be contradictory in terms. GH, on the other hand, may well have the genius to evolve long term success, and that is what we all would like to see, I'm sure. Whether he can do it? We have to give him the chance. I vote for TRO's view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sunderland will be the turning point for me It's all very well playing well against Chelsea and getting a good point there but we did the same against Man Utd and continued to play as shit as before afterwards. If we beat Sunderland the team will have massive confidence going into the Sheffield Utd game and more importantly Small Heath away. If we lose, well, we know that it was probably just another blip and our one game a month where we tend to play well. More importantly if we win on Wednesday it shows we have the character to get out of this mess and what better time to get out of it just in time for the heathens. I'm confident we'll be OK based on yesterday's performance but I'm sure everyone was saying that after the Man Utd game too. We just need to carry the momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee1971 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 great point at chelsea i think quite a few players and management grew a pair that day but wouldnt it be just like villa to cock it up on wednesday and put us back in it.so come on villa another good performance please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sunderland will be the turning point for me It's all very well playing well against Chelsea and getting a good point there but we did the same against Man Utd and continued to play as shit as before afterwards. If we beat Sunderland the team will have massive confidence going into the Sheffield Utd game and more importantly Small Heath away. If we lose, well, we know that it was probably just another blip and our one game a month where we tend to play well. More importantly if we win on Wednesday it shows we have the character to get out of this mess and what better time to get out of it just in time for the heathens. I'm confident we'll be OK based on yesterday's performance but I'm sure everyone was saying that after the Man Utd game too. We just need to carry the momentum.I agree. The difference between Man U and Chelsea though is that after Man U we were all left feeling a bit deflated and that result certainly wasn't as important (points wise) as against Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I agree Sellyoak. I guess the main difference I can determine from the good performance against Man U, and the good performance against Chelsea is that at Man U we played a lot of youngsters, particularly in the middle of the park, whereas against Chelsea we had a lot more experienced heads in there. So now we have more players fit and a better squad to choose from we can get a better mix of youth and experience which might just help to get a bit more stability in the coming games. Our youngsters have been great but it comes as no surprise that young players are much less consistent on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The defence is still a major issue for me, how can we concede 3 against Chelsea and Friedel still be man of the match? We still could have conceded 5 or 6 even with us playing very well and Chelsea not playing very well at all, we need to tighten up, but I do believe Houllier got the tactics and defence spot on for what it's worth. I hope he plays the same team against Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 3, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2011 For me, Sunderland game isnt about the result. It's about the performance. If the players go back to looking like they couldnt give a shit... then we're in big trouble. But if we get that feeling of togetherness which was there at the Chelsea match then we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The defence is still a major issue for me, how can we concede 3 against Chelsea and Friedel still be man of the match? We still could have conceded 5 or 6 even with us playing very well and Chelsea not playing very well at all, we need to tighten up, but I do believe Houllier got the tactics and defence spot on for what it's worth. I hope he plays the same team against Sunderland.It's no coincidence that up until we were leading Chelsea had very few chances and Friedel didn't have to make that many saves. I guess the old "sit back and counter attack mentality" kicked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Agree PieFacE, but 3 points wouldn't go amiss either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 3, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2011 Agree PieFacE, but 3 points wouldn't go amiss either 3 points are always welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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