Next leader of the Labour Party should be.....

[Risso]

The fact that Ashcroft again is subject to more media revelations about his lies and deceit seems to have no worries for you. Now remind me again, was it the Gvmt who the other day were calling for justice against Tax avoidance (theft)?

You seemingly are happy for Ashcroft to continue to steal millions off the UK public.

I wonder how Cable can deal with this since in March of this year he said ""This is quite serious. We are now not talking just about Ashcroft's non-dom status, but about systematic tax avoidance in funding Conservative party activities such as polling. How far were the Conservatives aware that Ashcroft did not pay VAT, as would have been incurred by any normal polling activity?"

But no doubt the Tory party will twist and spin this and it will end up being a problem caused by the unemployed or something similar

Tax evasion is illegal.

Tax avoidance is the perfectly legal practice of minimising a person's tax liability by whatever means are open to them.

[snowychap]

I'd say hit would be unusual if he didn't have the majority of the input, I mean writing it does not suggest to me that he basically took everything that Gordon gave him on a dictaphone and just sat down and transcribed it, that would be an admin role.

I have no idea what kind of control the author of the manifesto would have.

It would strike me as rather peculiar to give over the authorship of a party's manifesto to one individual (especially someone not the leader of the party) if their control over it was such as you'd suggest.

It might well play out that way, it might not. I think it would be much more than an admin task to be the person responsible for producing a party manifesto that represents the platform on which the party wants to stand (rather than representing the author's personal wishlist of policies on which he wishes the party to stand).

I'm not sure I've made the distinction clear, there. Hope I have - if I haven't let me know and I'll give it another shot.

[Jon]

FWIW, I don't think Labour's manifesto was too bad at all at the last GE. I certainly don't think that is why they didn't win.

I'd suggest one of the main factors for them not winning has now stood down. :nod:

[tonyh29]

Couldn't be sure there hasn't been any malpractice at all - you never can be in any election - but I think "stories" like yours are unrepresentative (if true - i.e. likely to be isolated) at best and untrue at worst.

wasn't suggesting any malpractise .. to my knowledge the calls are not illegal ? Just going by what the callers said on the radio ..one caller claimed to have received 37 calls

my point really was that LABOUR voters on the phone by and large were not happy with the outcome .. which somehow in got spun into a right wing attack by a later reply :shock:

for the record I have family members who are union members but are not Labour voters

I bet they get made to stand in the corner at family gatherings though :-)

You seemingly are happy for Ashcroft to continue to steal millions off the UK public.

where does he steal money off the public ... does he walk into your house and lift it from under the squeaky floorboard behind the kitchen dresser .. or is it income made in a foreign country then the UK has no right to levy taxes on ?? and how does that compare to Lord paul for example , i didn't see him anywhere in your rant against wealthy non doms

in fact if you want to talk about "stealing " from the tax payer how about Blairs holiday that the tax payer paid for , or that due to IHT relief donations by people like Lord Sugar to a political party actual cost the tax payer money (section 24 of the inheritence tax law if you are interested )

[tonyh29]

In 112 CLPs David Miliband received more than 50% of the vote, compared with just five CLPs where his brother Ed received over 50% of the vote.

When it came to Labour's top 50 marginal seats, David Miliband came top in 39 CLPs, well above Ed Miliband who came top in nine, with Andy Burnham and Ed Balls coming top in one each.

In the 50 safe Labour seats, David Miliband again beat his rivals, coming top in 39 CLPs, followed by Ed Miliband top in nine of them, and Mr Burnham coming first in two.

Ed Miliband: 42.63% from Unite; 42.05% from GMB; 34.3% from Unison

David Miliband: 19.57% from Unite; 22.61% from GMB; 23.68% from Unison

Andy Burnham: 7.18% from Unite; 7.24% from GMB; 8.33% from Unison

Ed Balls: 6.29% from Unite; 5.91% from GMB; 7.61% from Unison

Diane Abbott: 10% from Unite; 7.45% from GMB; 10.3% from Unison

All the figures here , not sure if the source is on the axis of evil list at present though ?

[Risso]

When MPs such as Danny Alexander and the rest avoid CGT on second homes they're "simply paying less tax according to the rules". When other people do it, the very same "paying less tax according to the rules" magically becomes "immoral tax avoidance on a par with benefits cheats".

[Condimentalist]

I'm not wholly convinced by Ed Miliband, but then I wasn't by any of the candidates.

I'll be very surprised if he becomes PM, put it that way.

[drat01]

I really am failing to see the point that you are trying to make though Tony. The electoral scheme is a fair one based on rules that were agreed to the election. At the end of the day Ed won and that is it.

also if you have a problem with this how do you then react to the following

David Davis - 62

David Cameron - 56

Liam Fox - 42

Ken Clarke - 38

Recognise that? Its the results from the first round of the Tory vote for leader. Obviously the party wanted Davis as leader?

[tonyh29]

I really am failing to see the point that you are trying to make though Tony

i wasn't really making any point , i was just posting the breakdown of the how the voting went

the full link shows how the voting went in each others stronghold and so on , just quite interesting ..I.e Diane Abbot didn't even win in her own stronghold

[snowychap]

When MPs such as Danny Alexander and the rest avoid CGT on second homes they're "simply paying less tax according to the rules". When other people do it, the very same "paying less tax according to the rules" magically becomes "immoral tax avoidance on a par with benefits cheats".

As far as I'm concerned Danny Alexander acted immorally.

[snowychap]

I.e Diane Abbot didn't even win in her own stronghold

Diane Abbott has a stronghold? :shock:

(She might have a strong hold but I'm not sure of what.)

[Risso]

When MPs such as Danny Alexander and the rest avoid CGT on second homes they're "simply paying less tax according to the rules". When other people do it, the very same "paying less tax according to the rules" magically becomes "immoral tax avoidance on a par with benefits cheats".

As far as I'm concerned Danny Alexander acted immorally.

And me. I think what the MPs did was actually worse than normal tax avoidance as:

a) they should be setting an example, and

they were exploiting rules not available to the general public

So when his boss comes on bleating about tax avoidance, he really can shove up it up his hypocritical arse. Whil there are tax laws, there are ways to minimise tax, and thankfully, the tax QCs we pay for are a bit more swtiched on than either government ministers or the halfwits at HMRC...

[Richard]

I'd say hit would be unusual if he didn't have the majority of the input, I mean writing it does not suggest to me that he basically took everything that Gordon gave him on a dictaphone and just sat down and transcribed it, that would be an admin role.

I have no idea what kind of control the author of the manifesto would have.

It would strike me as rather peculiar to give over the authorship of a party's manifesto to one individual (especially someone not the leader of the party) if their control over it was such as you'd suggest.

It might well play out that way, it might not. I think it would be much more than an admin task to be the person responsible for producing a party manifesto that represents the platform on which the party wants to stand (rather than representing the author's personal wishlist of policies on which he wishes the party to stand).

I'm not sure I've made the distinction clear, there. Hope I have - if I haven't let me know and I'll give it another shot.

I'm a bit dense. Can you give it another shot!

[Ads]

For those that think Ed Milly is the furthest left candidate and thus that is why the unions wanted him.

Weren't both Burnham and Abbott both standing too?

Neither Diane “insert Drats favourite word here” Abbott or Andy “could I have a bigger chip on my shoulder?” Burnham was ever going to win though. The unions backed one out of the two candidates that had a realistic chance.

The strongest candidate I always thought was Balls. But he was never going to win due to the handicap of being a bit of a dick and thought of as such by nigh on everybody.

[snowychap]

I'm a bit dense. Can you give it another shot!

Grrrr.

I think what I was trying to say was that whilst Ed M would have had the responsibility of writing the document (and therefore the responsibility for the content) that wouldn't necessarily mean, I'd have thought, that he was responsible for the nature of the content. I'd have expected him to have been charged with writing the document that the Labour leader/sofa cabal/NEC/movers and shakers wanted to see with the policies that were collectively decided upon (much more than an admin task and he'd have been responsible for how they were presented, worded and, perhaps, the detail that fleshed the policies out) rather than being charged with coming up with a manifesto (and being in charge of the policies that made it up).

Like I said, I don't know how the cookie crumbles with regard to these things but surely it's not too different to being given the task by a boss of writing a report to explain a company's policy (or institution's policy), is it?

I know, I know - probably as clear as mud.

[Risso]

Neither Diane “insert Drats favourite word here” Abbott.

Diane "Airmiles" Abbott?!

[Ads]

Neither Diane “insert Drats favourite word here” Abbott.

Diane "Airmiles" Abbott?!

Diane "Another Dom Pom please stewardess" Abbott.

[Gringo]

The strongest candidate I always thought was Balls. But he was never going to win due to the handicap of being a bit of a dick and thought of as such by nigh on everybody.

If everyone thinks he's a dick, how can he be the strongest candidate? Honest question

Perhaps you mean you like his policies the most you closet trotskyist you

[Jon]

Neither Diane “insert Drats favourite word here” Abbott.

Diane "Airmiles" Abbott?!

Diane "Another Dom Pom please stewardess" Abbott.

Diane "Tumbleweed" Abbott?

[Richard]

Neither Diane “insert Drats favourite word here” Abbott.

Diane "Airmiles" Abbott?!

Diane Richard Abbott actually as that is her second name!