Bolitics The New Condem Government

[villaajax]

[leviramsey]

So I guess Rugeley defected from the Tories to UKIP.

[snowychap]

Aargh.

What a bloody horrid QT audience and panel.

Even Huppert is talking cock. (Creasey and the Pimlico plumber lad - ouch for different reasons)

[chrisp65]

the scrambled logic of the Pimlico guy is scary, in that he appears to believe the nonsense he's saying

 

at least Seb Fox knows he's spouting half truths and lies

[bickster]

So todays bit of absolutely unthoughtout Tory lunacy is to dump "The Human Rights Act".

Labours response was spot on, it really is a knee jerk reaction to the rise of UKIP. It was an idiotic, conceived on the back of a fag packet (the use the current vernacular) policy from UKIP that the Tory Party have just copied without any real thought for the sake of headlines. Or they really are that barking mad.

As I and others have posted many times here, the Human Rights Act is the cornerstone of the Council of Europe, thats not the EU thats the 47 countries in Europe including Russia and nearly all the Stans. To withdraw from it would almost certainly mean being outside the CoE and as a result almost as likely to be out of the EU as being a member of the CoE is a prerequisite of EU membership.

Thats out of the EU which the Tory Leadership claim they still want to be a member of, so they can change from within… capitalist Trotskyism if you like. There's little point in having an EU referendum if you're going to dump the Human Rights Act, the EU will dump us before we have a vote.

And as much as the HRA grabs the odd headline because it helps bad people like Abu Hamza et al, just remember being out of the CoE and the EU will mean no more European Arrest warrants and also extradition may become a problem

Just goes to prove that UKIP have the Tories properly spooked and that politicians will say anything to keep their power

[MakemineVanilla]

So todays bit of absolutely unthoughtout Tory lunacy is to dump "The Human Rights Act".

 

 

Tory voters would probably like to see habeas corpus banned because it sounds a bit foreign.

[bickster]

Even Former Attorney General Domonic Grieve called it Puerile and ill thought out

[Mantis]

 

So todays bit of absolutely unthoughtout Tory lunacy is to dump "The Human Rights Act".

 

 

Tory voters would probably like to see habeas corpus banned because it sounds a bit foreign.

 

I think you're confusing Tory voters with UKIP voters.

[bickster]

So todays bit of absolutely unthoughtout Tory lunacy is to dump "The Human Rights Act".

 

Tory voters would probably like to see habeas corpus banned because it sounds a bit foreign.

I think you're confusing Tory voters with UKIP voters.

I think you'll find underneath the little badges they are one and the same and after this announcement even more so

[Mantis]

 

 

 

So todays bit of absolutely unthoughtout Tory lunacy is to dump "The Human Rights Act".

 

Tory voters would probably like to see habeas corpus banned because it sounds a bit foreign.

 

I think you're confusing Tory voters with UKIP voters.

 

I think you'll find underneath the little badges they are one and the same and after this announcement even more so

 

That's simply not true at all. Just because they're both right-wing doesn't mean they're both the same, much in the same way that Labour and the Greens aren't the same despite both being left-wing.

 

For the record, I'm a Conservative voter and I can't stand UKIP and would never consider voting for them.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Mantis

[bickster]

You'll be voting for the same policies soon enough, regardless of what you think of UKIP

[Mantis]

You'll be voting for the same policies soon enough, regardless of what you think of UKIP

I don't think your predicted shift in Conservative policy will actually happen to be honest.

 

Half of it isn't even about policy anyway - I simply don't like the way UKIP conduct themselves. I can't stand their populist rhetoric and they seem to have a lot of nutters. That isn't to say that I agree with them on a lot but perhaps if they focused less on easy answers to complex problems, less on promoting this "us and them" mentality with regards to Westminster and more on substance I'd be less hostile towards them.

 

Farage claiming that the recall of parliament to discuss airstrikes on IS in Iraq was all just a ploy to distract from their conference is case in point - he's an idiot of the highest order.

[bickster]

So why hasn't Cameron the balls to tell the world that Farage is an idiot? Instead he adopts the policies of the idiot, somethings not right there

[Mantis]

So why hasn't Cameron the balls to tell the world that Farage is an idiot? Instead he adopts the policies of the idiot, somethings not right there

It's not about balls it's just simple electoral strategy. Calling Farage out for what he is directly is just going to galvanise the UKIP vote and harm the Tories more in 2015.

[markavfc40]

Just goes to prove that UKIP have the Tories properly spooked and that politicians will say anything to keep their power

 

Cameron has been dancing to Farage's tune for some time and the reasons are two fold. To appease the far right in his party who would now be a perfect fit for UkIp, two MP's have recently defected, and to pull back the vast number of traditionally conservative voters who have been lured under Farage's spell.

I find it highly disturbing just how much influence a right wing nut job like Farage is having given that the party he leads doesn't hold a single seat in Parliament. Clegg at least tried to take him on showing that he perhaps had one bollock in his sack which gives him one more than Cameron.

[Mantis]

Despite what some on the left try and claim UKIP aren't attracting Conservative voters exclusively.

 

And as I already said, Cameron not taking on Farage head on is the most sensible thing to do from his point of view - denouncing Farage for what he is would play right into UKIP's hands and they'd use the "the political establishment are running scared" card.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Mantis

[GENTLEMAN]

 

So why hasn't Cameron the balls to tell the world that Farage is an idiot? Instead he adopts the policies of the idiot, somethings not right there

It's not about balls it's just simple electoral strategy. Calling Farage out for what he is directly is just going to galvanise the UKIP vote and harm the Tories more in 2015.

 

How would you feel about a UKIP and Tory coalition?

[villaajax]

Despite what some on the left try and claim UKIP aren't attracting Conservative voters exclusively.

 

Quite right. Tommy Robinson of the EDL has spoken highly of UKIP.

[Mantis]

 

 

So why hasn't Cameron the balls to tell the world that Farage is an idiot? Instead he adopts the policies of the idiot, somethings not right there

It's not about balls it's just simple electoral strategy. Calling Farage out for what he is directly is just going to galvanise the UKIP vote and harm the Tories more in 2015.

 

How would you feel about a UKIP and Tory coalition?

 

Do you mean an electoral coalition or a government coalition?

 

If it's the latter then I don't support it. While it may save the loss of some Tory seats it would reinforce this myth that UKIP are just an offshoot of the Conservative Party and could potentially put off some swing voters. I don't think UKIP's current popularity will survive in the coming decades either - they're a protest vote and they'll get found out once they get a few MPs.

 

If we're talking about the government then I'd prefer a coalition with the Lib Dems again - I may not agree with them on a lot of things but I think they'd be a lot better for actually governing the country. They're a reasonably sensible party overall and a much better alternative than Labour or UKIP IMO.

[villaajax]

Would the Tories and UKIP really be a 'coalition', wouldn't they just merge back into one?