SPECULATION : Milner to City/Utd/Chelsea/Spurs

[TrentVilla]

I've no idea if the talks were positive or not I wasn't there.

Are you saying you think the club lied Tom? Because all I said on that particular matter was I agreed with you there is little point formally offering someone a contract who has indicated they won't sign it.

I would have thought it possible for the club to think the talks were positive only to discover later he won't sign a contract.

[Woodytom]

I've no idea if the talks were positive or not I wasn't there.

Are you saying you think the club lied Tom? Because all I said on that particular matter was I agreed with you there is little point formally offering someone a contract who has indicated they won't sign it.

Oh yeah - apologies it wasnt meant as a direct reply to your post. I just thought Id throw it in the mix somewhere.

But yes I feel like the club has lied to us. How big of a deal it is I dont know, but I dont see why they should ever lie to us.

[Woodytom]

I would have thought it possible for the club to think the talks were positive only to discover later he won't sign a contract.

How can that be though, if in the meeting he said he wont sign a contract and that he wants to go?

How can that ever be deemed positive?

[rjshare]

it doesnt really matter - mon said back in may that they would sit down with milner AFTER the world cup and talk about his future. that meant that he had a couple of months to chat to gareth barry about how good it is being really rich whilst doing a bit of running in south africa.

the fact is the club did not put a contract in front of milner at the end of the season, in my opinion it was a huge error for several reasons regardless of whether or not he had initmated that he wouldnt sign one of it was offered.

1 - the club was in a stronger position if he had gone and done a 1990 david platt in south africa

2 - they could PUBLICLY prove that they want him to stay but the player was refusing to tie himself to the club long term.

3 - they could get on with selling him sooner rather than later, giving mon chance to go shopping with the proceeds BEFORE the season starts.

lets face it - for 30million, most fans dont care which way he jumps - he's a good player, but its a lot of money. the only bad thing that can happen from this deal is that it goes through on august 31st and we are sat on 30m quid until january with a huge hole in the team.

[villabromsgrove]

What exactly has MON done wrong

apart from telling the world the player wants to join the team we're tryin to get as much money out of as possible? or telling everyone that hes not going to sign a new contract, meaning that this summer is the last one where we'll get reasonably big money for him? or telling everyone that we're deseperate for citys money to sign new players? or giving city the green light to sit on their hands for as long as they like and leave us with an unhappy player who the manager has publically fallen out with in our pre season squad, while disrupting our plans to sign anyone by leaving any increased offer til the last minute?

apart from all that?

I come on here time and time again and read peoples frustrations saying that they wish someone would just tell us whats going on. Do you think Man city didnt know all that already????

Every one wanted to know what was going on, we now do, if you dont like it - Tough Shit. But dont blame the messenger.

Blame the guy who deliberately slammed the Villa door in Milner's face, leaving him with no option or way back, when he has never said to Mon that he wanted to leave in the first place. Mon said that he "believes that JM and his agent have "intimated" (to someone else, as he admits he hasn't personally spoken to JM for over a month!!!!) that he would like to go to Man city!

What kind of a half arsed bit of useless double speak is that to sever a players Villa career on? Why not just phone him up like a normal sensible human being and ask him for god sake. JM has a four year contract which he is exactly halfway through and he has said and done nothing wrong. He is being used as a pawn in Mon's power games imo.

[Woodytom]

it doesnt really matter - mon said back in may that they would sit down with milner AFTER the world cup and talk about his future. that meant that he had a couple of months to chat to gareth barry about how good it is being really rich whilst doing a bit of running in south africa.

the fact is the club did not put a contract in front of milner at the end of the season, in my opinion it was a huge error for several reasons regardless of whether or not he had initmated that he wouldnt sign one of it was offered.

1 - the club was in a stronger position if he had gone and done a 1990 david platt in south africa

2 - they could PUBLICLY prove that they want him to stay but the player was refusing to tie himself to the club long term.

3 - they could get on with selling him sooner rather than later, giving mon chance to go shopping with the proceeds BEFORE the season starts.

lets face it - for 30million, most fans dont care which way he jumps - he's a good player, but its a lot of money. the only bad thing that can happen from this deal is that it goes through on august 31st and we are sat on 30m quid until january with a huge hole in the team.

If a player says he is not interested in a contract, then the club offer him a contract as a means of desperation - I think that is when a player is deemed bigger than the club.

[Woodytom]

Villabromsgrove:

"I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go," said O'Neill.

[TrentVilla]

Sounds like a question for the General to be honest WoodyTom

[villanesque]

So basically the club lied to us after the meeting because it doesnt appear it was positive at all.

I don't see that as lying. I can accept that at that time the meeting could still be perceived as positive even if Milner voiced his desire to move but also said he would consider staying on with Villa with a raise. Once the World Cup ended and the reality that signing a "new" Villa contract was raised again and Milner (through his rep) said he wouldn't sign with the team to stay on any longer than his current contract THAT's when the team went public at Milner's desire to leave.

I can see a player saying if the 'deal's good then yes I would be open to leaving' but 'if the deal doesn't come good I enjoy playing for Villa and will continue to give 100% and would consider staying on. My take is that if anyone LIED it was Milner (his agent) who lied by suggesting he was open to the possibility of a new contract but has since made it clear that staying past he's current contract was not of any interest. Or (and what I hoping) is that no one lied at all just that Milner's thought about his options and has decided it's either City now or ride out his current contract. Basically he's willing to give Villa what he's contracted for but no commitment for the long haul. I don't begrudge Milner at all. But if he wants to leave our first team, if he's not satisfied with playing each week and contributing each week with a top club as Aston Villa he can move on but as a fan he is dead to me and will not get a "good luck" shout from me as a fan. If he and City have good luck in the future - good on them but I'm not wishing them well and I'm not giving him a blessing. He can take his money and spend it and I can take my adulation and cheer for those that WANT to fight the good fight at Villa!

Before too long some one will mention Milner's name and my response will be 'Who?'

[Woodytom]

So basically the club lied to us after the meeting because it doesnt appear it was positive at all.

but also said he would consider staying on with Villa with a raise.

I didnt realise he had said that??

[smokingzen]

it doesnt really matter - mon said back in may that they would sit down with milner AFTER the world cup and talk about his future. that meant that he had a couple of months to chat to gareth barry about how good it is being really rich whilst doing a bit of running in south africa.

the fact is the club did not put a contract in front of milner at the end of the season, in my opinion it was a huge error for several reasons regardless of whether or not he had initmated that he wouldnt sign one of it was offered.

1 - the club was in a stronger position if he had gone and done a 1990 david platt in south africa

2 - they could PUBLICLY prove that they want him to stay but the player was refusing to tie himself to the club long term.

3 - they could get on with selling him sooner rather than later, giving mon chance to go shopping with the proceeds BEFORE the season starts.

lets face it - for 30million, most fans dont care which way he jumps - he's a good player, but its a lot of money. the only bad thing that can happen from this deal is that it goes through on august 31st and we are sat on 30m quid until january with a huge hole in the team.

If a player says he is not interested in a contract, then the club offer him a contract as a means of desperation - I think that is when a player is deemed bigger than the club.

I think you'll find if you listen to or read the MON interview he said that he 'thinks' Milner's agent said he would not sign a new contract, but that he wasn't there so he isn't sure! He also said Milner 'intimated' he wanted to go, not that he said he wanted to go, or that he wanted to leave. So essentially neither MON or the club have actually said outright in concrete terms that Milner refused to sign new contract or that he actually wants to leave. Everything has however been put in a manner in which these things are infered. An old ploy, suggest something without actually saying it, so you can always deny that isn't what you meant or what you said, and protect yourself from libel in the process. Yeh MON's a real straight up guy!

[Woodytom]

Sounds like a question for the General to be honest WoodyTom

How do i know his answer will be honest :winkold:

[villabromsgrove]

Villabromsgrove:

"I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go," said O'Neill.

That was spooky, I thought for a minute that Mon had decided to enter our debate personally! That'll teach me to read posts more carefully. Wasn't that quote from before the so called "positive meeting," Woody? Mon hasn't spoken to JM since then.

[Big_John_10]

What exactly has MON done wrong

apart from telling the world the player wants to join the team we're tryin to get as much money out of as possible? or telling everyone that hes not going to sign a new contract, meaning that this summer is the last one where we'll get reasonably big money for him? or telling everyone that we're deseperate for citys money to sign new players? or giving city the green light to sit on their hands for as long as they like and leave us with an unhappy player who the manager has publically fallen out with in our pre season squad, while disrupting our plans to sign anyone by leaving any increased offer til the last minute?

apart from all that?

How is that any different to the situation with liverpool and barry and how did making it public that barry could go for the right place allow liverpool to then get him on the cheap?

I'd love to know.

[Woodytom]

it doesnt really matter - mon said back in may that they would sit down with milner AFTER the world cup and talk about his future. that meant that he had a couple of months to chat to gareth barry about how good it is being really rich whilst doing a bit of running in south africa.

the fact is the club did not put a contract in front of milner at the end of the season, in my opinion it was a huge error for several reasons regardless of whether or not he had initmated that he wouldnt sign one of it was offered.

1 - the club was in a stronger position if he had gone and done a 1990 david platt in south africa

2 - they could PUBLICLY prove that they want him to stay but the player was refusing to tie himself to the club long term.

3 - they could get on with selling him sooner rather than later, giving mon chance to go shopping with the proceeds BEFORE the season starts.

lets face it - for 30million, most fans dont care which way he jumps - he's a good player, but its a lot of money. the only bad thing that can happen from this deal is that it goes through on august 31st and we are sat on 30m quid until january with a huge hole in the team.

If a player says he is not interested in a contract, then the club offer him a contract as a means of desperation - I think that is when a player is deemed bigger than the club.

I think you'll find if you listen to or read the MON interview he said that he 'thinks' Milner's agent said he would not sign a new contract, but that he wasn't there so he isn't sure! He also said Milner 'intimated' he wanted to go, not that he said he wanted to go, or that he wanted to leave. So essentially neither MON or the club have actually said outright in concrete terms that Milner refused to sign new contract or that he actually wants to leave. Everything has however been put in a manner in which these things are infered. An old ploy, suggest something without actually saying it, so you can always deny that isn't what you meant or what you said, and protect yourself from libel in the process. Yeh MON's a real straight up guy!

Well in that case thats fine and Milner and O'Neill will talk when james Milner returns. I am not angry ith either, Im just sticking up for O'Neill.

[Big_John_10]

mind you, if you do that you can make excuses for them being sh1t by claiming that they never had a full preseason...

Which players has he said this about?

And you honestly believe MON signs players late so he can have an excuse ready? And people seriously tell me that no one has an axe to grind with the manager on here

[Woodytom]

Villabromsgrove:

"I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go," said O'Neill.

That was spooky, I thought for a minute that Mon had decided to enter our debate personally! That'll teach me to read posts more carefully. Wasn't that quote from before the so called "positive meeting," Woody? Mon hasn't spoken to JM since then.

That quote was from the other day and I assume refers to the meeting which the club deemed positive. Im not sure where all the confusion is?

[Big_John_10]

He is being used as a pawn in Mon's power games imo.

My god some are so desperate for this to be true so they can justify abusing the manager they can't think straight.

Why on earth would randy allow this to happen and at the same time allow other important first team players to be pissed off and threaten his investment?

Why would MON risk his job and his reputation by forcing one of the clubs best players and most popular players to leave?

Why would MON risk ruining the things he's built at villa by doing this? Do you not think if milner wanted to stay and was being pushed out of the club that other first team players would not be pissed off? Who on earth wants to play for a club or for a manager that would push out such a promising player?

Its absolute nonsense to believe that Jame Milner wants to stay and has to leave as he has no other choice now that MON has forced him to leave the club.

[rjshare]

mind you, if you do that you can make excuses for them being sh1t by claiming that they never had a full preseason...

Which players has he said this about?

And you honestly believe MON signs players late so he can have an excuse ready? And people seriously tell me that no one has an axe to grind with the manager on here

no - but i dont believe he helps himself by leaving everything he does so late

anyway, thats unlike you to selectively quote someone and then criticise other posters... i was talking about mon, why are you talking about me?

[smokingzen]

But yes I feel like the club has lied to us. How big of a deal it is I dont know, but I dont see why they should ever lie to us.

I don't think they have lied, i do however think they have been very selective in their words and what they have told us so we can jump to conclusions. Lied no, been disingenious, yes.

A few examples:

To the media: "We have told James Milner we want him to stay at the club."

To Milner: "James we want you to stay at the club however if a big money offer comes in from City we might just have to take it."

To the media: "James has intimated he wants to go"

To Milner: "So if a big offer comes in from City and we were happy to take the cash would you be willing to go?"

Milner: "Well possibly boss."

No lies told, but certainly things put in a misleading fashion.