The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[Dr_Pangloss]

Bradley looked sensational against a punching bag. I don't blame Rios for announcing his retirement (assuming he sticks to it) as when you get knocked out by Bradley that's really a sign to quit the sport. 

Bradley for what it's worth has always carried a modicum of power when going to the body, especially the left hook, and it was a left that hurt Rios the worst prior to him going down. Investing to the body was always a great strategy as I've always felt that Rios, whilst having a granite chin, doesn't have a strong body, and his weight issues compounds that (he rehydrated to 170lbs last night!).

As unpopular as Bradley is I've always been a big fan and I'm certain he has a fair amount left in the tank at the top level. I'd really like to see him fight Kell Brook. I think Brook can win that fight, because of his power, but Bradley would give Brook a hell of a fight and it would really test Brook's credentials as a top welterweight. 

 

Smith looked very good, Fielding looked very fragile. But Smith certainly looks highly capable and will be interesting to see what he does if/when he steps up to fight the better super middleweights out there.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[YGabbana]

Bradley looked sensational against a punching bag. I don't blame Rios for announcing his retirement (assuming he sticks to it) as when you get knocked out by Bradley that's really a sign to quit the sport. 

Bradley for what it's worth has always carried a modicum of power when going to the body, especially the left hook, and it was a left that hurt Rios the worst prior to him going down. Investing to the body was always a great strategy as I've always felt that Rios, whilst having a granite chin, doesn't have a strong body, and his weight issues compounds that (he rehydrated to 170lbs last night!).

As unpopular as Bradley is I've always been a big fan and I'm certain he has a fair amount left in the tank at the top level. I'd really like to see him fight Kell Brook. I think Brook can win that fight, because of his power, but Bradley would give Brook a hell of a fight and it would really test Brook's credentials as a top welterweight. 

 

Smith looked very good, Fielding looked very fragile. But Smith certainly looks highly capable and will be interesting to see what he does if/when he steps up to fight the better super middleweights out there.

No chance Hearn puts Brook in with Bradley. It'll be another bum.

Always liked Bradley, hes a warrior.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I think Bradley's more than warrior, he has underrated skills. He has one of the best jabs in the sport, he has very fast feet and all round good footwork, his hands are relatively fast and he lets his hands go in combination very well. On top of that, as you point out, he has all the 'intangibles' of a top champion. 

To be charitable to Brook, I think Chaves is a pretty good opponent, Chaves is tough, has decent power and is underrated technically - he's very sneaky and gets punches off well, has a very nice jab and can counter crispy, plus puts punches together in combination well. I expect Brook to stop him, cos Brook is much bigger, stronger and more powerful but I consider Chaves credible. 

The problem is that Brook's last two fights have been against an unforgivably low calibre of opponent. Chaves really should be his 'tune-up' or 'showcase' fight, sandwiched in between top level welterweights. Instead Chaves is his 'big' fight this year, it's not good enough. Hearn is trying to turn Brook into a star, but Brook has no x-factor, no personality or likeability. So pushing him on sky for these ridiculous PPV's against guys who shouldn't be in the ring with him (i.e. Gavin) isn't going to work.

The only way Brook can be a star is by beating top welterweights, he needs to be matched against the best, and let his skills do the talking.

[The_Rev]

 

I'm pretty sure this was recorded the day before Wlad pulled out of the fight for the first time.  I thought Tyson came across very well in it, he seems to play the "idiot who might not be so stupid after all" character very well at times, he's totally self aware and he has an air of menace to him.  Wlad has seen it all before of course but I think Tyson may have got to him a little bit here. It's looking like it will be a really interesting fight. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'm 100% sure Wladimir was not injured, he has pulled out of multiple fights in the past under curious circumstances, and this pull out is pretty consistent. He's a highly structured fighter who wants to have all the angles covered, I'm certain he didn't feel sufficiently prepared, and Fury definitely got into his head, so he pulled out to buy himself more time. 

[foreveryoung]

Joshua and Whyte will be interesting, but still not the fight we all want to see. Just a little pocket change for that knobber Eddie Hearn. Obvious telling Whyte to act a little to get the media attention this fight needs, as I think we are all getting a little bored of Josh fighting the underdogs.

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Joshua and Whyte will be interesting, but still not the fight we all want to see. Just a little pocket change for that knobber Eddie Hearn. Obvious telling Whyte to act a little to get the media attention this fight needs, as I think we are all getting a little bored of Josh fighting the underdogs.

The fight is interesting due to the subtext, that Whyte had the beating of him in the amateurs. I know a few OG's in Brixton who have either trained with or seen Whyte train as an amateur and they rate him highly, suggesting that he can beat Joshua. 

It's often said that Whyte was a lot more experienced than Joshua at the time, but that's partially true. Both took up boxing at similar time/age and Whyte is only a year older. Where Whyte had the advantage was that he had a relatively distinguished kickboxing career prior to his switch to boxing, Joshua, to my knowledge, had no fighting experience (in a professional setting) prior to taking up boxing, he was, from all accounts, a street kid. 

I've followed Whyte for a few years, when he came on the scene, he looked very good, but since his steroid ban, he hasn't really looked that good to me. He has done his job, and knocked over a load of bums, but hasn't really looked like a thorough technician in the way he has gone about it, whereas Joshua has. 

Joshua looks the better athlete in terms of his conditioning, and looks the better technician. I think he has to be the big favourite going into this. What Whyte has in his favour is that he is very powerful, he hits very hard, so with that power he will possibly have an opportunity against someone who has hardly got the elite level experience. Maybe Whyte can exploit a weakness, or perhaps the inexperienced Joshua will give him an opening. 

Of course, the other thing that can work in Whyte's favour is that amateur win. Now often, guys who lose to someone in the amateurs go on to beat them convincingly in the pros, since they are really different forms of boxing. But it's not entirely impossible that Whyte could have some sort of mental edge in this bout that will work to his advantage...

But still, Joshua has to be the overwhelming favourite.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The fight is interesting due to the subtext, that Whyte had the beating of him in the amateurs. I know a few OG's in Brixton who have either trained with or seen Whyte train as an amateur and they rate him highly, suggesting that he can beat Joshua. Whyte of course beat Joshua in the amateurs. 

It's often said that Whyte was a lot more experienced than Joshua at the time, but that's partially true. Both took up boxing at similar time/age and Whyte is only a year older. Where Whyte had the advantage was that he had a relatively distinguished kickboxing career prior to his switch from boxing, Joshua, to my knowledge, had no fighting experience (in a professional setting) prior to taking up boxing, he was, from all accounts, a street kid. 

I've followed Whyte for a few years, when he came on the scene, he looked very good, but since his steroid ban, he hasn't really looked that good to me. He has done his job, and knocked over a load of bums, but hasn't really looked like a thorough technician in the way he has gone about it, whereas Joshua has. 

Joshua looks the better athlete in terms of his conditioning, and looks the better technician. I think he has to be the big favourite going into this. What Whyte has in his favour is that he is very powerful, he hits very hard, so with that power he will possibly have an opportunity against someone who has hardly got the elite level experience. Maybe Whyte can exploit a weakness, or perhaps the inexperienced Joshua will give him an opening. 

Of course, the other thing that can work in Whyte's favour is that amateur win. Now often, guys who lose to someone in the amateurs go on to beat them convincingly in the pros, since they are really different forms of boxing. But it's not entirely impossible that Whyte could have some sort of mental edge in this bout that will work to his advantage...

But still, Joshua has to be the overwhelming favourite.

So do you think if Joshua wins this one convincingly, it will give us much more belief he is the real deal?

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'd say it would be Joshua's best win. Whyte is an undefeated 'prospect' who has, at various points, being tabbed to be going places. It will certainly help Joshua's case, but for me, until Joshua can convincingly defeat two or three genuine contenders, I won't be calling him the real deal. 

Lennox Lewis really arrived on the scene when he obliterated Razor Ruddock inside 2 rounds, Ruddock of course gave Mike Tyson two very hard fights, defeated a former world champ in Greg Page, and was considered a fearsome puncher and top contender. Joshua really needs a moment like that to get sufficient break through in the sport.

[The_Rev]

Who can he beat though? The heavyweight scene ain't what it was in the 90s and there aren't that many scalps to be had outside of Wladimir. Tyson Fury might be the next champ but he's not a huge win for anybody who beats him yet, ditto Wilder. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

6 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

Who can he beat though? The heavyweight scene ain't what it was in the 90s and there aren't that many scalps to be had outside of Wladimir. Tyson Fury might be the next champ but he's not a huge win for anybody who beats him yet, ditto Wilder. 

There's certainly more scalps to be taken that would elevate Joshua in terms of (a) his ranking in the division and (b) his actual experience and ring IQ. I'd suggest matching him against the following opponents, assuming he can't get a world title shot in the next 18 months:

Erkan Tepper

Ruslan Chagaev 

Bermane Stiverne 

I think all three of them will give him more to think about than anyone he has fought but all three are beatable. Tepper is about as tall as Wladimir, has power and a bit of a tricky style. Chagaev is tiny but very, very experienced, tricky and can make for a tough night. Stiverne has lots of power and is very durable. 

Then he should look at the likes of Povetkin, Wilder and Pulev. If he can destroy any of those guys, that would be effectively his Razor Ruddock moment.

[PongRiddims]

Is AJ on the gear or is he genuinely that we'll built?

[Dr_Pangloss]

I must admit, I'm not so sure about the Alvarez - Cotto fight later. 

Firstly I'm glad the WBC stripped Cotto as he has been disgracing the middleweight division ever since he forced a one-legged Martinez to fight at a catchweight for the title. Although the belt is still up for grabs for Alvarez, despite the fact that he has no intention to actually fight at middleweight beyond the fight. 

Anyway, some random thoughts:

Alvarez is the bigger, stronger man. Probably has the (slight) edge in the power, has the edge in counter punching and definitely has the edge in combination punching. Cotto, I believe, is the more durable, has better footwork, much better jab, more dangerous left hook and higher ring IQ. 

Cotto will be up against it on the cards - if this fight goes the distance, and is reasonably close, expect Alvarez to get the nod, he is of course, the 'apparent' future of the sport. The odds I feel are reflecting this. 

Alvarez cannot cut the ring off at all, his feet are awful. He will try to counter punch as his main tactic.

Cotto can cut the ring off and has throwing his left hook as well as he ever has under Roach.

Alvarez has awful stamina. He has to punch in flurries and fight in spots, he visibly tires in most of his fights, usually around the 7/8/9 round marks, before getting a bit of a second wind. If Cotto works the body early, Alvarez will be in a lot of trouble. 

Cotto is more of an 'ambush' fighter these days under Roach, he is a lot more in-and-out but on the out he is applying a lot more pressure with his feet than other ambush fighters like Amir Khan and David Haye. He's also sitting down on his punches a lot more. 

Both guys are probably juiced up - Cotto at his age appears to be more aggressive than ever and appears to have grown stronger in the past 4 years. Canelo is probably on some sort of diuretic because he's a BIG dude, he has to shed like 30 odd pounds to make this weight. 

Anyway, this will be a close fight whilst it lasts, Cotto will need a knock out to win if it is close. I think he and Roach knows this, the only way he can decision Canelo is if he really beats him up.

But yeah, this will be good, both guys I think will get hurt, but for some reason, I quite fancy Cotto in this one.  

Edited November 21, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[AshVilla]

Ryan Burnett hasn't really set manchester on fire tonight has he

Adam Booth was raving about him before the fight saying how he was the most talented fighter he's ever worked with

Martin Murray loses on a split again lol

Edited November 21, 2015 by AshVilla

[YGabbana]

Disappointed with Cotto, seemed to be on the backfoot most the time like Pac was against Floyd. Must be freddie roach tactics.

Had the fight alot closer than some of the judges though.

Canelo says hes open to fight GGG but only at 155 so i doubt it happens.

[Dr_Pangloss]

OMG, those cards were ridiculous, I just knew the judges would job Cotto. I had Canelo winning this by one and only one round, it was a close fight. He had success with the stick and move but didn't sit down enough on his punches, but he was outboxing Canelo at times using that tactic, Canelo really doesn't fair so well against movers. 

But Canelo's body work was excellent, it slowed Cotto down down the stretch and he basically stopped sticking and moving and really just started to run for big portions of the rounds, this is where Canelo over turned his earn rounds deficit and won the fight.

I guess the only way Canelo will fight Golovkin is if Golovkin kills himself to make a catchweight, hilarious, another bad night for boxing then. Here's a novel idea, now you're the 'lineal' champ, go and fight the real champion of the division at the middleweight weight limit. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[The_Rev]

I had Canelo by a couple. He definitely won the fight but those cards were ridiculous. Cotto knew as soon as the first one was called that he'd been stitched up, you could tell by his face. 

[YGabbana]

OMG, those cards were ridiculous, I just knew the judges would job Cotto. I had Canelo winning this by one and only one round, it was a close fight. He had success with the stick and move but didn't sit down enough on his punches, but he was outboxing Canelo at times using that tactic, Canelo really doesn't fair so well against movers. 

But Canelo's body work was excellent, it slowed Cotto down down the stretch and he basically stopped sticking and moving and really just started to run for big portions of the rounds, this is where Canelo over turned his earn rounds deficit and won the fight.

I guess the only way Canelo will fight Golovkin is if Golovkin kills himself to make a catchweight, hilarious, another bad night for boxing then. Here's a novel idea, now you're the 'lineal' champ, go and fight the real champion of the division at the middleweight weight limit. 

Absolute joke isnt it. Boxing is dieing a slow death with these catchweights.

Im all for PBC making their own belts and their own tournaments. Haymon has half of boxing signed up.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'm a bit skeptical about PBC to be honest, so far it has been quantity over quality, and it of course, has had it's share of catchweight bouts. It's major financier (Waddel and Reed) has been in a bit of trouble, so I'm not sure what it's long term viability is. Haymon over pays for production and talent, his ratings in the US have been decent, but it needs to actually deliver some genuinely big fights to ever really take over. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Also has to be said that last night was a bit of a black eye for Jay Z's Roc Nation venture into the sport of boxing. His big names are Cotto, Rigondeaux and Andre Ward. 

Ward appears to be emotionally unstable and unclear about whether he really wants to actually dare to be great again. Cotto just lost his biggest fight in a long time and doesn't have long left and will never headline a PPV event again. Rigondeaux looked absolutely dreadful against a club fighter (I actually think Rigo is a knockout waiting to happen but will go into that a later date). 

Going forward Ward just cannot attract buzz or interest because his style is hardly fan friendly but his personality is probably his biggest barrier (reluctance to genuinely test himself against top talent and let's face it, the guy is just boring).

Roc Nation is in desperate need of attracting fresh talent who are going places, else it will be a flash in the pan just like 50 Cent's venture. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss