Mr_Dogg Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Actually BrumAmerican I have taken Forensic Psychiatry and have wrote a paper for the UK government on Personality Disorders which was used in a fairly recent White Paper...so no I don't think I'll take you up on the offer... I'm not interested in the Vatican or it's beleifs...only my own... Studies of the Human DNA bring scientist's to conclude that their would have been an or an original male and female human. Like I said you scoff all you want...I was responding to a question someone else asked me So you believe Adam and Eve existed? Goodbye credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 No I'm sorry...I don't agree with this... I am not surprised by that. Adam and Eve were created perfect...however they were not created robots he tested them and told them that if they failed the test they would die...they chose to folllow a spirit creature that questioned God's authority over them and also said God had lied to them and said they positively would not die. Please don't take this as anything personal, Julie, but repetition of a story neither makes it more plausible nor more true and it certainly goes no way to explaining it or to countering a question that springs out of that story. The Bible calls God a Heavenly Father so I don't think it is ridiculous to liken his authority and their free will to a father with his children. The bible may call him a 'heavenly father' just because it uses the same word does not mean that the comparison is actually worthwhile. In order for it to be so then each and every single parent would have to go about the creation of each and every child from the very beginning and I am not talking from the moment of physical conception. They would have to design every detail of the child down to the molecular level. They would need to understand how to do it, how everything interacts, what the consequences of all of their designs will be. Indeed they would need to be like a god-style creator rather than two creatures who take part in a process. God did indeed take responsibility for the Evil If God is responsible for the evil and sent Jesus along to correct things then it would suggest that he made a bit of a cock up, wouldn't it? That would suggest that he is not perfect. So we have an imperfect God who chooses not to exercise his omnipotence to correct the error he made and also chooses to ignore the fruits of his omniscience in order to judge mankind for carrying out the actions that God knew all along were going to be made. Couldnt agree more fella, but rarely will a religious person actually sit back and think about it rationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Please don't take this as anything personal, Julie, but repetition of a story neither makes it more plausible nor more true and it certainly goes no way to explaining it or to countering a question that springs out of that story. No then we'll have to agree to disagree. I was saying that God creation's were created perfect, the fact that they could become imperfect does not necessarily mean their Creator got it wrong. God's sovereignty was questioned and he has the right to answer that in the way he sees fit surely? If God is responsible for the evil and sent Jesus along to correct things then it would suggest that he made a bit of a cock up, wouldn't it? That would suggest that he is not perfect. Again a similar response to above. What you seem to be saying is that in your opinion God should have made everything perfect if he exists? No one should have the free will to make a choice. But then I see things differently to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So you believe Adam and Eve existed? In 1988, Newsweek magazine presented those findings in a report entitled “The Search for Adam and Eve.” Those studies were based on a type of mitochondrial DNA, genetic material passed on only by the female. Reports in 1995 about research on male DNA point to the same conclusion—that “there was an ancestral ‘Adam,’ whose genetic material on the [Y] chromosome is common to every man now on earth,” as Time magazine put it. Whether those findings are accurate in every detail or not, they illustrate that the history we find in Genesis is highly credible, being authored by One who was on the scene at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Please don't take this as anything personal, Julie, but repetition of a story neither makes it more plausible nor more true and it certainly goes no way to explaining it or to countering a question that springs out of that story. No then we'll have to agree to disagree. I was saying that God creation's were created perfect, the fact that they could become imperfect does not necessarily mean their Creator got it wrong. God's sovereignty was questioned and he has the right to answer that in the way he sees fit surely? If God is responsible for the evil and sent Jesus along to correct things then it would suggest that he made a bit of a cock up, wouldn't it? That would suggest that he is not perfect. Again a similar response to above. What you seem to be saying is that in your opinion God should have made everything perfect if he exists? No one should have the free will to make a choice. But then I see things differently to you. If god wasnt imaginary, then he'd be rubbish anyway. The great flood of Noah is basically god shaking his Etch-a-sketch and starting over again. Hardly the work of an omipotent, omniscient being is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So you believe Adam and Eve existed? Goodbye credibility So thereby from my post regarding Newsweek and Time Magazine..do they lose all credibility also??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So you believe Adam and Eve existed? In 1988, Newsweek magazine presented those findings in a report entitled “The Search for Adam and Eve.” Those studies were based on a type of mitochondrial DNA, genetic material passed on only by the female. Reports in 1995 about research on male DNA point to the same conclusion—that “there was an ancestral ‘Adam,’ whose genetic material on the [Y] chromosome is common to every man now on earth,” as Time magazine put it. Whether those findings are accurate in every detail or not, they illustrate that the history we find in Genesis is highly credible, being authored by One who was on the scene at the time. 1988!!!!! Lmfao Seriously Newsweek magazine?????? LMFAO Where are the peer reviewed , scientific documents? Please stop embarrassing yourself with arguments that would get laughed at even on answersingenesis.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So you believe Adam and Eve existed? Goodbye credibility So thereby from my post regarding Newsweek and Time Magazine..do they lose all credibility also??!!! Definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 How many children did Adam and Eve have, Julie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 If God is responsible for the evil and sent Jesus along to correct things then it would suggest that he made a bit of a cock up, wouldn't it? That would suggest that he is not perfect. Again a similar response to above. What you seem to be saying is that in your opinion God should have made everything perfect if he exists? Where have I said that? It would appear that, in seeking to redress the imbalance that he had created, God, himself, acknowledged that he had made a cockup. Again not the cleverest move for an omnipotent and omniscient being. No one should have the free will to make a choice. But then I see things differently to you. Where have I said that no one should have the free will to make a choice? What I have said is that in this tale, free will is not the concept that you suggest but an excuse given for the failings of this creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 19, 2009 Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2009 Julie I have a question if I may in relation to several topics raised in this debate, namely creationism, Adam & Eve, Science and the burden of proof. My understanding is that the bible claims that God made mankind first and foremost before all other beings but this can actually be scientifically proven to be untrue. There is an abundance of fossil evidence that proves the existance of dinosaurs millions of years before mankind walked the earth. Yet the bible and every other religious text make not one single reference to their existance, not one, not even a hint. This in my opinion is evidence that the bible is the work of man rather than God as their is no knowledge of dinosaurs existance and thus the teachings circumspect since the most basic fact, the time line itself is proven false. In addition the existance of dinosaurs also proves the theory of evolution as there is clear fossil evidence of their evolution over the course of millions of years. I'm yet to hear any sort of religious explaination for the existance of dinosaurs and their evolution. Also while on the subject of timescales you make claims earlier in this thread about the bibles accuracy in relation to the stars yet in Genesis it clearly gets the order wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Julie I have a question if I may in relation to several topics raised in this debate, namely creationism, Adam & Eve, Science and the burden of proof. My understanding is that the bible claims that God made mankind first and foremost before all other beings but this can actually be scientifically proven to be untrue. There is an abundance of fossil evidence that proves the existance of dinosaurs millions of years before mankind walked the earth. Yet the bible and every other religious text make not one single reference to their existance, not one, not even a hint. This in my opinion is evidence that the bible is the work of man rather than God as their is no knowledge of dinosaurs existance and thus the teachings circumspect since the most basic fact, the time line itself is proven false. In addition the existance of dinosaurs also proves the theory of evolution as there is clear fossil evidence of their evolution over the course of millions of years. I'm yet to hear any sort of religious explaination for the existance of dinosaurs and their evolution. Also while on the subject of timescales you make claims earlier in this thread about the bibles accuracy in relation to the stars yet in Genesis it clearly gets the order wrong. I think you've just owned the bible with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Didn't Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel? And if so, how did the human race continue, unless one of them impregnated their mum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Didn't Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel? And if so, how did the human race continue, unless one of them impregnated their mum? And how does it explain racial diversity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 19, 2009 Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2009 Didn't Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel? And if so, how did the human race continue, unless one of them impregnated their mum? And how does it explain racial diversity? Easy, they evolved. Oh shit. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Didn't Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel? And if so, how did the human race continue, unless one of them impregnated their mum? And how does it explain racial diversity? Good point, but I was angling more at the moral issue. Pretty sure God might have been further pissed off with them after kicking their asses out of Eden. "There you go, that'll teach you to disobey me." "Oh yeah? Watch this. Come here son." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Didn't Adam and Eve have two sons, Cain and Abel? And if so, how did the human race continue, unless one of them impregnated their mum? And how does it explain racial diversity? Good point, but I was angling more at the moral issue. Pretty sure God might have been further pissed off with them after kicking their asses out of Eden. "There you go, that'll teach you to disobey me." "Oh yeah? Watch this. Come here son." I get what youre saying I think. Basically Adam and Eve **** everything up for the rest of us and their reward is a bit of incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just got back in and there's a few more questions to be responded to... Firstly...Sorry guys my mistake...Moses didn't write about the Earth being a Circle it was Isaiah written in about 732BCE...in Jerusalem that Scripture is found in Isaiah Chapter 40 V 22. Moses in Job did write about the earth hanging upon nothing, which is precisely correct as I said before... Adam and Eve had many children not just Cain and Abel.....the Bible attests to this. Where did they all get their wives from...well they married their sisters or their neices. Listen guys...I ain't gonna carry on researching points and trying to give answers that just get scoffed at and ridiculed. I'm not going to be bullied sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Adam and Eve had many children not just Cain and Abel.....the Bible attests to this. Where did they all get their wives from...well they married their sisters or their neices. Thought it may have been the case that they had more kids. But it's still incest which ever way it's viewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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