Sie Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I've got to be honest at this point as after doing more reading up on Druid end game, I'm can sort of see why Druids are few and far between and it's due to them being a bit, well, broken. All shapeshift forms are basically the equivilent of a car with no wheels. Cat = ok melee DPS - nigh on zero survivability in melee. Bear = Good Survivability in melee - Shite DPS/Burst in melee. Moonkin = Ok damage output - unreliable CC which **** over applying that damage output. Every form is a giant catch 22 situation and the worst thing is, there is no real solution to it in terms of class mechanics. Add stuns to cat, you're a fully fledged rogue. Add DPS/burst to bear and you're a fully fledged warrior. Add reliable CC to Moonkin and you're a fully fledged Mage. Pick either one or all of those hypothetical solutions and let the imba label roll on. Which brings us to the other solution of gear, which currently forces Druids to spread their stats so thinly about their various shiftforms that they just can't compete with more focused classes. And as you know, gear switching doesn't work in combat so you decide "right, I'm going to cat this" then realise halfway through a fight that you've just severly gimped your caster form because you're trying to CC and heal in Agi gear. Alternatively, wearing a single set of gear that covers all the bases AND is enough to scale your damage up to compete with other classes just doesn't exist at the moment (no thanks to crap base dmg multipliers from forms). Its just a shame that the one truely great thing druids are good at is running away. The thing is, on paper, the theory behind the hybrid Druid class sounds fantastic but, in practice, it doesn't quite work at the moment because of a combination of poor base dmg in forms, crap gear (those two being very much related) and shiftforms that feel too incomplete. So I think until my Druid is fully kitted out in uber PvP gear, I'm really going to have to up my game in terms of outfoxing the enemy and using every trick in the book (of which I've picked up quite a few so far) . Still plenty of time but I do hope that within said time, Blizzard take another look at the Druid. The class feels like it's on the brink of brilliance but needs that extra something to bring it up to the same playing field as the rest of WoW...at level 60 at least judging from reports. Anyway, when am I getting my Dasher's invite? Start dropping some hearsay in the guild for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted July 12, 2006 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2006 Meh. Like Shamans, Druids are a hybrid class - jack of all trades and master of none. If you buff their abilities enough then every warrior, rogue or mage wannabe would roll a druid just for their versatility. As for PVP tricks, changing form seems to do a good job of dispelling any dots on you. If a druid is running and changing forms (and healing inbetween) there is simply NO WAY I (a shaman) can stop them, let alone kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 You know whats a shame nayson. The fact that there are so little priest dmg gear around that priests actually have to nick loot earmarked for locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Anyone got a link to the patch? Blizzard downloader doesnt work for me ofc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 12, 2006 Administrator Share Posted July 12, 2006 I downloaded the patch at work this morning. I wonder when I'll get to play it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Going back to the Hybrid thing, i really do think gear is the tradeoff for all the abilities you get. Druids are gear dependent. I dont think they should have a great damage output. If they did, they would be the best class on the game by a mile. I dont think a Druid should be able to beat someone in PvP just by overpowering them like a Warrior/Mage/Combat Rogue can. They are a class that requires a lot more thought, and ulitmately that has to be more satisfying. Certainly at 60, when a Warrior (and im picking on MS/Fury warriors here who are particularly guilty) can just obliterate anything with the same combo over and over (Charge/Intercept > Hamstring > Mortal Strike > White Damage > Whirlwind > Execute) no matter who they are or what they can do back to you. No interupts to worry about as everything is instant. You should have to think a little more about what you are doing. Druids are certainly not underpowered in PvP though. I can think of a certain Druid in our guild who is living proof of that. Ive said it for a while re: Druids though. They should be able to have the ability to change gear in combat. It shouldnt be a class inherit, but a certain percentage of a chance to change gear in combat or when hit or something, and a high end talent in one of the trees. The Population of Druids is probably an Identity crisis thing. Everyone knows what a "focused" class like a Warrior, or a Mage or Rogue. Thats why lots of people take them as they are pure versions of traditional classes that have been in videogames since the year dot. Its probably not as noticable to you guys but the Locks (second lowest populated class on the game after Druids) say similar things about our identity in the game. We are supposed to be "debuffers" but fall flat there, especially as a Warrior is a much better debuffer than we are! Doesnt mean we arent fun to play though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Is Trl the new Aggarof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Meh. Like Shamans, Druids are a hybrid class - jack of all trades and master of none. If you buff their abilities enough then every warrior, rogue or mage wannabe would roll a druid just for their versatility. As for PVP tricks, changing form seems to do a good job of dispelling any dots on you. If a druid is running and changing forms (and healing inbetween) there is simply NO WAY I (a shaman) can stop them, let alone kill them. I did have a long winded reply to this but the forum just ate it The 'Jack of all trades' label doesn't apply to Druids in the same way as Shamans. Shamans have a unique playstyle and so are not affected by a deliberate holding back of certain abilities that make that particular playstyle truly work. The Totem mechanic is a complete, singular and individual playstyle whereas Druid shifting is 3 cut down playstyles rolled into one. In PvP, shapeshifting is a time consuming process due to global cooldowns and this can often negate the effects of the bear bash you've just applied. Shift bear, charge, bash when rage is up, shift out, wait for global cooldown, shift cat - by the tme this has happened, that stun might as well have not been apllied. This means any form of stunning a Druid does is mainly to retreat, not attack. Druid versatility seems to be misunderstood too. They're versatile in that they can fill holes in PvE. The lack of gear switching in PvP combat will always render certain forms severly underpowered should you be using multiple sets. On the flipside, 1 gear set for all forms spreads itself too thinly in terms of stats. And shifting doesn't dispell DoTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Is Trl the new Aggarof? I cant say i had much against aggarof :wink: Tho i cant say calling all germans idiots or what he did, when the gm is german, was very bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Well I know a few people that aren't great fans of you. Though your CL hates me, so who am I to talk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hahaa, well if i manage to piss people off through wow, then i take it as a compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Do you cuss them bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Just been messing about with the new Rogue talent calculator for 1.12 and came up with this PvP build. use short links As far as I'm concerned, it's the ultimate stunlock build. It's based on the traditional 21/8/22 cb/Prep build but drops Imp Backstab (I never used this in my stunlocks) and replaces with 2/2 Imp cheapshot meaning you can fully lock an opponent in your opener section up to your first evis without fear of reply. On top of this, I've added hemorrhage (pre 1.12 this wasn't possible with all these other talents) meaning that once the diminishing returns start to kick in on stuns, you have an even quicker combo point generator than SS. This means you can scale the speed of your combo point generating in relation to diminishing returns. Additionally, all the max damage and crit talents are in there too (as well as 3/3 imp sap) meaning serious damage. It's got all 3 major stealth related attributes too, those being 5/5 MoD, 5/5 stealth cooldown reduction and 5/5 speed increase when stealthed. Oh and Prep and CB are in there too. In the hands of the right player and uber gear, I reckon this build could border overpowered. If these talents stay the same, you might want to give this one a try Dan if you get bored of combat. I may even pester Blizz to see if I can get my rogue over to Tarren Mill somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Im tempted to sit out raids for a while and play around with pvp builds, and gank the shit out of people. I like that build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 You can still do well in PvE with a PvP build, as i proved in AQ20 when we did it the other day. I was top caster by a mile until i had to go mana draining. And id say my build is definately more about burst damage than substained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Back from Ireland, to find that you slackers have added a mere two pages! Anything exciting to report? Don't understand all the fuss about Druid shapeshifiting tbh. As long as they cast moobuff on me, they can change into Wonderwoman for all I care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nothing much exciting to add. We got to Ragnaros on tuesday but didn't stand a chance of downing him because too many nabs went to bed. We wiped at the Sons phase. Also in ZG last night we got to Hexxer (who I really need a Primal Hakkari thingy off) having just done a repair run and agreed we would have 1 go at him (many were tired and said they'd leave after we attempted him). Half the raid weren't even present, and the other half had like 1/2 mana and had started buffing. Kaularas, in /y dared Lacroix to pull Jindo, saying he'd give him 10G if he did. So Lacroix mounted, ran at Jindo, died, got us all in combat and wiped the raid. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 ^^ What a pair of **** bell ends. That Kaularas is THE biggest twunt in the guild, even worse than Grossos (which means the two biggest clearings in the woods in the guild are both shammies). On one Zg run he'd let his mate play his character without telling anyone, and his mate was a complete imbecile. Then when Redemptus kicked him, he wanted a summon back when the Zulian Defender dropped. He's always pissing about and acting up, so much so that a lot of people put him on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 It amazes me how these people got recruited, or how they're kept on. I know the Dashers are a casual guild, but you are allowed to kick members from the guild you know, the only time I can recall was with Aggarof and thats because Shack is the only person with the balls to do it. But yes, your class is full of nabs isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Post number 4999 in the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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