Ratings & Reactions: Nottm Forest v Villa

[DaveAV1]

28 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said:

This is pretty much where I am too. We conceded softish goals at annoying times (especially the second) - I think Dougie  has to take a decent share of the blame for the  first, was very slow to react and seemed to stand off. 

Forest were great  as well. They were a  lot sharper  than us and really  disciplined in their area. Nothing was going to go for  us. 

While we were definitely off the boil and struggled with the pressure Forest applied,  it's  a far cry from many of the limp, incompetent, gutless defeats I've  seen in the past. There was still a plan - we weren't good enough  to make it  work, perhaps missed a little bit of X factor up front or an option to pose their defence a completely different problem, but it's only the very best teams and players that can rescue those situations. The offside trap still worked pretty well - a thing of beauty.

A frustrating day, but we're  not there yet. This will show us how to get better and ultimately improve in the longer term

You’re right and we must remember that we get something from every game we play under Unai as he will learn something about the squad, regardless of the result. Not only that but he’ll do something about it too. UTV 

[Herman22]

I know many don’t rate XG but to think Forest scored two goals yesterday from 0.05 XG. Sometime you just have to conclude it just wasn’t our day. 

It’s so rare for Emi to throw a goal in like that and for us to pass up on so many chances. 

[Jas10]

We’re not a good enough team or set of players that we can afford to be arrogant or complacent… a bit of success or momentum shouldn’t enlarge our players’ heads or egos… must learn from this…

If the attitude and approach is not right, we will struggle.

It will be addressed, the only man who doesn’t seem susceptible to that is King Unai - the more our players can reflect his personality and thinking, the better.

[Jas10]

 

[Jas10]

 

[onmeedson]

To easily bullied and brushed of the ball, What was Luiz doing for the first goal, he should have at least tried to get out to the scorer but just stood there and waved it on its way.

[Lochheads twin]

A disappointing result and in typical Villa style we missed an opportunity to go past the 2 sides above us.

That said, you have to give some credit to Forest. They pressed well, were stronger that us and made the most of the chances that came their way. Once they went 2 up, they were happy to sit deep and defend what they had. I mention they were stronger than us but without being dirty. I though the ref was fair and consistent in allowing physical contact.

Now as an optimistic Villan, there are some positives to come from the match.

• It may remind Emi of how he won all those awards. A mistake is very rare but we don't need any more this season
• We cant just roll up to some of these grounds and expect the opposition allow us to play our game without competition.
• Most importantly, it will allow some folk to wash their lucky socks & pants, they were beginning to pong a bit!

2 important home games this week and a bit a of break before our next big away match.

Onwards!

 

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Jas10 said:

A poor first half and Emi’s error for the second goal (when we were pushing and trying to get back in the game) were what caused our downfall really…

after that we dominated (although they were free to sit on a healthy lead) and constantly pressured them, despite a lack of variation/imagination in play and over reliance on Digne/crosses, but for some reason completely lost our ability to shoot on target or finish chances. Also, Cash was particularly poor imo. His limitations are exposed in an Unai team… despite being a good lad and hard worker.

It was poor but we have a lot to learn from and work on… Unai will have these players tied down and forced to go through all the analysis with him and they will be coached to be better and avoid such situations reoccurring too often…

We’re 5th in the league… that suggests that this kind of thing leans more toward the exception than the norm… but we know that anyway.

Much better days ahead and to look forward to. If we always played well and never made mistakes, we’d be competing for the title if not winning it - this set of players is a long way from doing or being capable of doing anything like that or performing to that kind of level. We aren’t an elite team and this isn’t a group of elite players… not yet anyway… the injuries certainly don’t help either…

Fortunately, our expectations are not quite so sky-high and unrealistic, but we’re not a Champions League team or squad either. Since Unai arrived, I would class us as “over achievers” in a sense… really don’t think there are any other managers or coaches out there that would have got as much out of these players as Unai has and will do. We’ve got to keep strengthening for him to take us further and further…

Squad is depleted and limited… but we usually, near enough, have a good 11… much stronger when JJ and Moreno return (which may counteract or offset any expected or perceived future or incoming slump). January window and the potential return of Buendia sooner than expected to look forward to…

It’s a long season and there’s plenty to look forward to and enjoy, let’s not let the odd defeat shake our belief and conviction… we’ve been mostly great overall and dealt with many challenges and setbacks. A lot to be pleased about and encouraged by…

Maybe this sort of thing is occasionally required or to be expected and due, to keep our feet on the ground, keep expectations in check and avoid an excess of arrogance, entitlement and complacency. That goes for both players and supporters.

Unai sees things very clearly, knows our issues/deficiencies and what needs working on… it’s always apparent and he’s always honest in his (post match) interviews… more than anyone, he knows we aren’t a “quick fix” and it’s going to take a lot of time, work and money to turn us into the team/squad he actually wants us to be…  but the progression has been wonderful.

We will and must learn from these experiences, I’m sure Unai will see to that.

We’ve come a long way and yet still have a long way to go… let’s just try n enjoy the ride and try to avoid too much negativity and extreme reactions when possible… we’d all be much better for it. 

Brilliant Resume, you have saved me a lot of typing ........you have beat me to it, with that emboldened line.

Having had time to reflect, I don't think this game is a one off, anymore than I don't think the games against Brighton and West Ham was a fluke.....but it did take me back to Unai's announcement at last seasons walk about when he said " Only 10% of my work is done"...

That leaves a fair bit still to do....and I do see that, and I saw it yesterday.

I feel confident, he will see, why we lost that game, and in the fullness of time, he will strengthen it.....There are still fixtures in this league, I feel are a challenge,to us,  particularly away from home, with this present squad, and that is not a criticism, ( because they have done remarkably well in most of our fixtures) its an observation.

If I am being honest, we all have our opinions, how we can improve, but thats all they are....The only ones that matter are Unai's

despite the sloppy errors, that defined the match, I think it served to remind us, that lofty predictions are just dreams and we are not ready yet, to be taking them too seriously, despite sitting in 5th place.....as comforting as that is, its just a seasons start, and what a good start that is.....night and day from last season.

There have been a few examples in Unai's tenure, where we have come up short, against lesser opposition, and I am sure he will know, where we need to strengthen and improve....but it takes time, and hard work, and that is something I am in no doubt he will put in......Unai is a workaholic, he will not rest until he eradicates, these types of offerings.

It was also interesting to see how Luton approached their game against Liverpool, after being out played by us.....probably similar to Forests approach.....Their gameplan changed to stifle Liverpool.

Finally, 

My take from this game is simply your emboldened line......I think its so apt.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, onmeedson said:

To easily bullied and brushed of the ball, What was Luiz doing for the first goal, he should have at least tried to get out to the scorer but just stood there and waved it on its way.

Indeed, where was the other centre back Ezri too....there was a gaping hole

Too many things, were wrong on the day......We now have an opportunity to put them right.

serial Winning can be boring ( just kidding) losing gives us the opportunity to get refocused, re-energised, and recast....back on that horse.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Lochheads twin said:

A disappointing result and in typical Villa style we missed an opportunity to go past the 2 sides above us.

That said, you have to give some credit to Forest. They pressed well, were stronger that us and made the most of the chances that came their way. Once they went 2 up, they were happy to sit deep and defend what they had. I mention they were stronger than us but without being dirty. I though the ref was fair and consistent in allowing physical contact.

Now as an optimistic Villan, there are some positives to come from the match.

• It may remind Emi of how he won all those awards. A mistake is very rare but we don't need any more this season
• We cant just roll up to some of these grounds and expect the opposition allow us to play our game without competition.
• Most importantly, it will allow some folk to wash their lucky socks & pants, they were beginning to pong a bit!

2 important home games this week and a bit a of break before our next big away match.

Onwards!

 

Life has a habit of letting us know, when things are not quite ready

Edited November 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Lochheads twin said:

A disappointing result and in typical Villa style we missed an opportunity to go past the 2 sides above us.

That said, you have to give some credit to Forest. They pressed well, were stronger that us and made the most of the chances that came their way. Once they went 2 up, they were happy to sit deep and defend what they had. I mention they were stronger than us but without being dirty. I though the ref was fair and consistent in allowing physical contact.

Now as an optimistic Villan, there are some positives to come from the match.

• It may remind Emi of how he won all those awards. A mistake is very rare but we don't need any more this season
• We cant just roll up to some of these grounds and expect the opposition allow us to play our game without competition.
• Most importantly, it will allow some folk to wash their lucky socks & pants, they were beginning to pong a bit!

2 important home games this week and a bit a of break before our next big away match.

Onwards!

 

For me, its a significant point.....they were more inclined to want to delve in to the more agricultural side of football....when teams do that, we tend to struggle....just my observation.

I think it's something Unai, will look at, going forward.....with his usual forensic approach.

Your second line, is so compelling, and very befitting....its hard to see past that as the most significant feature of that game.

Edited November 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

We’re not a good enough team or set of players that we can afford to be arrogant or complacent… a bit of success or momentum shouldn’t enlarge our players’ heads or egos… must learn from this…

If the attitude and approach is not right, we will struggle.

It will be addressed, the only man who doesn’t seem susceptible to that is King Unai - the more our players can reflect his personality and thinking, the better.

It is clear to me, in an open game of football, our players are up there with the best......but, when it becomes scrappy, and confined for space to play in, we can falter.

We have some hugely talented footballers, but we ( as a squad) are not as rounded as some of the top sides....anybody who watched that game at Newcastle v Arsenal, will know what I mean....we are not ready for that type of game, or to a lesser degree the one yesterday.

We must'nt forget in a certain style, we are a very good team, and one the neutrals are saying, very good on the eye...and one of the current teams to watch.

I think the trick is to add to what we already have, not take away the good what we have, but to add some steel.

I am not suggesting we foresake the talented football, that has taken us this far, but I am suggesting we add to the squad, some weaponary, we don't currently possess.

Edited November 6, 2023 by TRO

[RicRic]

Majority of forest fans seem to have a good word about us so respect to them ! 

Im not overly disappointed with the loss as its not like we got rolled over it just simply was not our day yes there were lethargic performances from some of the boys but lets focus on what we have ahead of us and hope JJ comes back quite soon.

We will certainly sign at least one player in the next window.

[Jas10]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Brilliant Resume, you have saved me a lot of typing........you have beat me to it, with that emboldened line.

Having had time to reflect, I don't think this game is a one off, anymore than I don't think the games against Brighton and West Ham was a fluke.....but it did take me back to Unai's announcement at last seasons walk about when he said " Only 10% of my work is done"...

That leaves a fair bit still to do....and I do see that, and I saw it yesterday.

I feel confident, he will see, why we lost that game, and in the fullness of time, he will strengthen it.....There are still fixtures in this league, I feel are a challenge,to us,  particularly away from home, with this present squad, and that is not a criticism, ( because they have done remarkably well in most of our fixtures) its an observation.

If I am being honest, we all have our opinions, how we can improve, but thats all they are....The only ones that matter are Unai's

despite the sloppy errors, that defined the match, I think it served to remind us, that lofty predictions are just dreams and we are not ready yet, to be taking them too seriously, despite sitting in 5th place.....as comforting as that is, its just a seasons start, and what a good start that is.....night and day from last season.

There have been a few examples in Unai's tenure, where we have come up short, against lesser opposition, and I am sure he will know, where we need to strengthen and improve....but it takes time, and hard work, and that is something I am in no doubt he will put in......Unai is a workaholic, he will not rest until he eradicates, these types of offerings.

It was also interesting to see how Luton approached their game against Liverpool, after being out played by us.....probably similar to Forests approach.....Their gameplan changed to stifle Liverpool.

Finally, 

My take from this game is simply your emboldened line......I think its so apt.

 

I just can’t help and can’t stop thinking just how much better we would have been if we hadn’t lost the services of Mings, Buendia, Moreno and Ramsey.

The first two we have just had to accept and live with but it’s been frustrating not being able to keep our preferred/superior left side players fit and regularly in the team. Once we do, we’re going to be a hell of a lot better and our play will improve. That has been one of a few significant blows we’ve had to contend with so far…

Can’t really recall any previous teams and managers that would have dealt with such setbacks before… would have completely derailed our seasons in the past…

JJ and Moreno are exceptional and crucial to the way we play, outstanding last season under Unai.

We have to keep strengthening this team to reach our goals, at every opportunity…

Despite the flaws we have pointed out, there’s no doubt that we are a hell of a lot more resilient these days than we used to be and there’s no severe or long lasting decline or poor form as we had gotten used to… we recover and we do it strongly and impressively. The next step is consistency… more players up to standard will really help with that!

We are going to destroy another team soon…

Edited November 6, 2023 by Jas10

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, RicRic said:

Majority of forest fans seem to have a good word about us so respect to them ! 

Im not overly disappointed with the loss as its not like we got rolled over it just simply was not our day yes there were lethargic performances from some of the boys but lets focus on what we have ahead of us and hope JJ comes back quite soon.

We will certainly sign at least one player in the next window.

Maybe it’s one of the reasons why I’m not so upset or irate after this defeat… I don’t have any strong feelings about Forest.

Would’ve rankled more against other opposition… and less dignified fanbases perhaps…

[TRO]

1 hour ago, RicRic said:

Majority of forest fans seem to have a good word about us so respect to them ! 

Im not overly disappointed with the loss as its not like we got rolled over it just simply was not our day yes there were lethargic performances from some of the boys but lets focus on what we have ahead of us and hope JJ comes back quite soon.

We will certainly sign at least one player in the next window.

I agree....fair play to Forest....they had a gameplan and it worked.

To respect the opposition is in effect respecting yourself.

Ps Really Pleased for Luton too, quite taken to that club.

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

I just can’t help and can’t stop thinking just how much better we would have been if we hadn’t lost the services of Mings, Buendia, Moreno and Ramsey.

The first two we have just had to accept and live with but it’s been frustrating not being able to keep our preferred/superior left side players fit and regularly in the team. Once we do, we’re going to be a hell of a lot better and our play will improve. That has been one of a few significant blows we’ve had to contend with so far…

Can’t really recall any previous teams and managers that would have dealt with such setbacks before… would have completely derailed our seasons in the past…

JJ and Moreno are exceptional and crucial to the way we play, outstanding last season under Unai.

We have to keep strengthening this team to reach our goals, at every opportunity…

Despite the flaws we have pointed out, there’s no doubt that we are a hell of a lot more resilient these days than we used to be and there’s no severe or long lasting decline or poor form as we had gotten used to… we recover and we do it strongly and impressively. The next step is consistency… more players up to standard will really help with that!

We are going to destroy another team soon…

We have already proved, under the right conditions, we have done that.

I think the players we have missed most, Is Mings and JJ....having said that, we miss them all....all of them have attributes/ingredients that the team is missing....you are right, we have done exceeding well under the circumstances.

I think Ty is a massive miss, despite Pau, deputising so well.....both are great players in their own right, but at the same time, bring varying attributes to the team.

Its hard to say who is better, because they are different and have different skill sets....we need both fit.

When Liverpool lost Virgil Van Dijk, for some time, it affected them significantly, we are in the same boat.....The injuries, cannot be glossed over, despite everyone having them...ours seem so key, to us.

Our team has been transformed under Unai, but we still have a way to go, I can see that, so can you.....Unai has already endorsed that, before the Forest Game.

The game was a disappointment....The season/ year has been pure joy.

Edited November 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Maybe it’s one of the reasons why I’m not so upset or irate after this defeat… I don’t have any strong feelings about Forest.

Would’ve rankled more against other opposition… and less dignified fanbases perhaps…

I agree Jas....can't help being taken by their Passion for their club.

[Jas10]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

We have already proved, under the right conditions, we ahve done that.

I think the players we have missed most, Is Mings and JJ....having said that, we miss them all....all of them have attributes/ingredients that the team is missing....you are right, we have done exceeding well under the circumstances.

I think Ty is a massive miss, despite Pau, deputising so well.....both are great players in their own right, but at the same time, bring varying attributes to the team.

Its hard to say who is better, because they are different and have different skill sets.

When Liverpool lost Virgil Van Dijk, for some time, it affected them significantly, we are in the same boat.....The injuries, cannot be glossed over, despite everyone having them...ours seem so key.

Our team has been transformed under Unai, but we still have a way to go, I can see that, so can you.....Unai has already endorsed that, before the Forest Game.

The game was a disappointment....The season/ year has been pure joy.

Moreno brings what we don’t have (and why he was signed): incisiveness, speed and dribbling ability. As well as Digne has performed for us, at a time of great need, he doesn’t possess the same skill set. Doesn’t offer a hell of a lot other than crossing (don’t think he is actually a superior defender either) which is often quite a useless approach for us considering the opposition and lack of aerial prowess in the team. Alex would cut through teams, play and link well with the attacking players and provide plenty of accurate cutbacks - which is more suited to the way we play. A major factor in how good we were under Unai last season…

Cash… I think it’s a glaring area where we can improve. So limited and nervy in possession… loose and hesitant… maybe genuine competition will improve him. Works hard and gets stuck in but not great going forwards and rarely provides good service.

Our attackers are not elite either… despite my admiration for them. Diaby and Watkins are performing well in general but we have missed Ramsey and Buendia.

Zaniolo needs time and confidence, Bailey is inconsistent and unreliable (especially in away games), Traore is relatively unfavoured..

We have no midfield depth beyond Luiz and Kamara… if we played a midfield 3, I would rather have McGinn in there (who always fights for us) than Tielemans and Dendoncker (no future here)…

I think that’s actually where we are lacking the most and where a bit of extra steel, as you often point out and identify, is needed.

[bobzy]

As much as people are pointing out Digne and Cash for being poor, Forest did really well to nullify the centre of the park which is often where we create most of our chances (getting the ball around the edge of the box and finding passes into the attackers).

I thought it was disappointing that we didn’t seem to switch up at all to try and work around their tactics. Similar with the high line and the success Forest were having with breaking through. Sure, they were offside sometimes, but it was literally the only thing they had going and we seemed to just say “aye, keep doing that lads”.

I’ve got full faith in Emery and have basically zero criticism of him, but he got it badly wrong yesterday.