chrisp65 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: But yet, only 5 horses dead in the last 10 years... So safety has kicked in somewhere. That’s actually 5 dead horses in the last 4 runs of the race. I’ll admit I’m not an expert, but I bet I could improve on that. Unless I wasn’t allowed to compromise the entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted April 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: But yet, only 5 horses dead in the last 10 years... So safety has kicked in somewhere. Is 5 deaths in 10 years acceptable for entertainment purposes? Could more be done to prevent unnecessary harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: That’s actually 5 dead horses in the last 4 runs of the race. I’ll admit I’m not an expert, but I bet I could improve on that. Unless I wasn’t allowed to compromise the entertainment. I dare say you could, or anyone else for that matter. I'm sure BHA, Jockey Club etc. Would be all for your ideas and opinion on how to improve it, and if you genuinely feel you could then I would encourage you to propose further safety ideas to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Just now, AvfcRigo82 said: I dare say you could, or anyone else for that matter. I'm sure BHA, Jockey Club etc. Would be all for your ideas and opinion on how to improve it, and if you genuinely feel you could then I would encourage you to propose further safety ideas to them. Less runners, less dangerous fences. Where do I collect my fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Rds1983 said: Is 5 deaths in 10 years acceptable for entertainment purposes? Could more be done to prevent unnecessary harm? Definately not. My post was trying highlight that the high volume of injuries and deaths has lowered over the years due to them constantly improving and modernising the course to make it safer. It's not something that is a quick fix or that will happen overnight imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, blandy said: I went to horsing once in my life, as it was a mate's stag do. it was not my cup of tea at all, but it was frankly kind of impressive and astounding watching the horses and the speed and power of them, all with little men clinging on to their backs. Most people seemed to be there, either to drink lots of drink, or to bet lots of money and the people actually watching the horsing, as opposed to drinking in the tents was small. But I suppose after you've seen one horse thunder past, you've seen them all. Now, back to the grown up conversation... Interestingly my mate said something similar about Rugby. Load of big lads in a big heap pushing each other while everyone there is drinking lots in the stand. Yet he loves American Football 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted April 17, 2023 Author Share Posted April 17, 2023 Any death is not acceptable for entertainment - thank f' the Romans died out! As for gambling on an event, it is fun and it is exciting. There are many deaths in many sports, Football, NFL, Rugby, Lacrosse!, greyhounds, competitive traffic, non of this stops me from enjoying (well apart from the traffic one) or even gambling on an event/sport though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: 5 dead horses in the last 4 runs of the race would suggest they should maybe re examine exactly how they’ve made it less unsafe. You've posted lots of posts in here now without stating what exactly your point is. If I flipped a coin 10 times and got 7 heads and 3 tails. What does that tell me about coin flipping? People who actually care about the sport and the horses well being care about the overall safety and lowering of the total fatality rate of horses in training. That's safety for horses racing a 2:15pm in Fakenham on a Tues and the favourite in the Grand National. Like everything we measure over a large sample of data to see if the underlying trend is reducing. The same way we would making cycling safer for people in cities for example, implement measures and measure impact over time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: Is 5 deaths in 10 years acceptable for entertainment purposes? Could more be done to prevent unnecessary harm? 3.57% of domestic cats are hit by cars per year. What amount of cat deaths is acceptable for entertainment purposes of their owners? Could more be done to prevent unnecessary harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: You've posted lots of posts in here now without stating what exactly your point is. If I flipped a coin 10 times and got 7 heads and 3 tails. What does that tell me about coin flipping? People who actually care about the sport and the horses well being care about the overall safety and lowering of the total fatality rate of horses in training. That's safety for horses racing a 2:15pm in Fakenham on a Tues and the favourite in the Grand National. Like everything we measure over a large sample of data to see if the underlying trend is reducing. The same way we would making cycling safer for people in cities for example, implement measures and measure impact over time. We’re discussing the Grand National. It’s a race run purely for entertainment and most years a horse dies, five horses in the last four runnings. I’m not saying I’m for or against it, I’m just suggesting people need to be honest with themselves. The race could be safer, but it would be less exciting. It could be designed to kill less horses, but it would be less exciting. I’m not squeamish about animal deaths, I eat lamb and beef and chicken so I do understand animals die. I don’t pretend otherwise. People that like the Grand National shouldn’t pretend otherwise and call protestors ignorant morons. They’re only kidding themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, CVByrne said: 3.57% of domestic cats are hit by cars per year. What amount of cat deaths is acceptable for entertainment purposes of their owners? Could more be done to prevent unnecessary harm? Sounds more like an argument for better road safety than against the domestication of cats or as a gotcha for animal rights arguments against the Grand National tbh. Spoken as someone who hates the little furry bastards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: People that like the Grand National shouldn’t pretend otherwise and call protestors ignorant morons. They’re only kidding themselves. The protestors are ignorant morons though. Like extinction rebellion or any number of other groups of morons who will never actually have to solve any problems just protest about them in idiotic ways. It's all for show and attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 17, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: The race could be safer, but it would be less exciting. It could be designed to kill less horses, but it would be less exciting. Like I said, I’m not a horsing fan, but is that actually true? The reduction in excitement i mean. Is flat racing less exciting than horse jumping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 1 minute ago, blandy said: Like I said, I’m not a horsing fan, but is that actually true? The reduction in excitement i mean. Is flat racing less exciting than horse jumping? Well, I would struggle to see another reason for allowing the deaths? Maximising profit? Surely they’re not allowing it just out of some weird sense of tradition or obstinacy? Perhaps its a question for the defenders of the Grand National, in what way would designing a safer race with less death detract from the event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said: Sounds more like an argument for better road safety than against the domestication of cats or as a gotcha for animal rights arguments against the Grand National tbh. Spoken as someone who hates the little furry bastards We breed cats for human entertainment and we put those animals in very unsafe environment of cities. My point is we should continue to improve safety in horse racing and the wellbeing of the horses and we should also improve road safety and general safety for for domesticated cats But of course if we banned humans from owning animals entirely we wouldn't have any of these issues at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, CVByrne said: The protestors are ignorant morons though. Like extinction rebellion or any number of other groups of morons who will never actually have to solve any problems just protest about them in idiotic ways. It's all for show and attention. How would you suggest they better raise the issue and get it talked about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Just now, CVByrne said: But of course if we banned humans from owning animals entirely we wouldn't have any of these issues at all. Basically my position as well for what it's worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: How would you suggest they better raise the issue and get it talked about? Through peaceful demonstration within the confines of the law. Like you see constantly these days. But these types of protestors are more like ideological fanatics and more concerned about how they appear to there peers within their group. You get status within the tribe the more disruption you can make. None of these people are concerned with a realistic definable outcome for what they're doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: How would you suggest they better raise the issue and get it talked about? As mentioned earlier, if they gave as much of a toss about horse racing and safety/cruelty etc. like they pretend to do, there are tracks out there elsewhere in the world that have alarming death rates of horses far far worse than Aintree. Sadly, those countries don't get the TV/Media coverage the Grand National gets so they won't get their 15 minutes of fame is maybe one reason why they don't bother. However, horses in NSW are dieing at a rate of 1 every second day - on a flat course with no jumps or hurdles. Why aren't the protest brigade focusing their attention on these places if it's such a concerning issue to animal welfare?? As someone else correctly stated in the thread already, you only have to drive around parts of the UK to see Cobs and Horses abandoned in fields... matted hair/coats and looking like they've not eaten in a year... Why are these concerned souls not banging the doors down of these neglectful people... ? Cruelty is cruelty right? or does it just apply to those running in the 5.15 at Aintree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, blandy said: Like I said, I’m not a horsing fan, but is that actually true? The reduction in excitement i mean. Is flat racing less exciting than horse jumping? They're essentially different sports. It's like asking Moto GP less exciting than F1 or WRC? I don't watch flat racing. Completely boring nonsense to me. Love the jumps. For reasons the next racing fan could say the exact opposite. Sport is sport, people like lots of different sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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