Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Spurs

[Paulie]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Does that apply to all games or just yesterday?

I’d say all games.

Felt like last week they experimented with McGinn as a holding mid and it went sideways until we found the balance… even then, Watkins was through on goal twice and put neither chance away, and this week Son buried his.

this team was so strong with Nakamba at that defensive mid spot, and looks less strong but still has quality going forward with Luiz there.

[PerryBarrPet]

41 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think our owners are going to be surprised now that we've lost that connection between fans, squad and manager. 

This is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But I think you will be surprised how supportive of manager, squad and owners most fans are.

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

This is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But I think you will be surprised how supportive of manager, squad and owners most fans are.

Well we certainly don't have a huge history of that. Not in the past decade or so. 

[R.Bear]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I think our owners are going to be surprised now that we've lost that connection between fans, squad and manager. 

And you'd know that how? Did we feature on a CNN report?

[The Fun Factory]

4 hours ago, Herman22 said:

I think it’s to counter the “sack Gerard, why give him more money to spend in the summer”. If we had better strikers yesterday we’d have won the game, we made the chances just didn’t put them away! 

Ings and Watkins scored a combined amount of 26 premier league  goals last year. Both have been poor this year. Whether that  is down to them, or our tactis is open for debate.

[Robbie09]

7 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

We got hammered 4 nil and home and have lost 3 of our last 4 home games. Along with 17 defeats this season?

Did you expect us to be dancing with joy?

No but some of the reactions on here are ridiculous. I’m not dancing with joy but some posters really are wetting their pants.
And if you think 4-0 was a true reflection of the game then I’d suggest we watched a different game.

[The Fun Factory]

5 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

No but some of the reactions on here are ridiculous. I’m not dancing with joy but some posters really are wetting their pants.
And if you think 4-0 was a true reflection of the game then I’d suggest we watched a different game.

It was in the fact that we didn't take our chances and made terrible defensive mistakes. The second half was awful.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, hippo said:

Yeah - would Kalvin Philips in that side today really have made any difference ?

er, eventually yes...

But we need at least one dominant Centre back too.

These poor errors are dragging the life out of the whole team and the poor finishing is aiding and abetting too.

a few good players in crucial positions will lift the rest.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, FLVillan said:

Granted, Konsa was poor and Chambers must be wondering what he did wrong.  But I see very little being said about how poor Mings was today.  First goal he stood and watched as the ball dropped, first off the Konsa header then again after the Kane shot.  He literally just stood to the side and watched Konsa attempt three challenges.  He'd probably tell you he was "marking" Son, yet when the ball came to Son he was too far off him as usual and gave him the time and space to pick his spot.  On the Kuvulescki goal, I just knew what was going to happen as soon as I saw he was 1v1 against Mings.  Once again, never got close enough and tried to be a goalkeeper instead of closing down the ball.  On the breakaway goal by Son, as the ball went up to Kane he should have been dropping off behind Konsa (central defending basics of one presses, one drops) to cover the exact piece of space that Son ran into. For me, he is by far the weakest link in that defence.  Unfortunately, we also rely on his voice too much to keep the organization back there as the others are like church mice.... It's a problem that needs to be sorted in the summer. 

Konsa was the closest to Son when he scored the first and the failure to disrupt Kanes header to Son was on him, being the closest, however a proper CDM could have been in that position, instead of Konsa, who should have been deeper looking after shop.

too many players coming to aid, are pulling themselves out of position and leaving gaps.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, hippo said:

Even if you give him a pass for today. We've lost 4 on the bounce and 7 from the last 10. ....

Any of those on him ?

He has to be responsible Hippo....he is the manager

but the one problem midfield is having a knock on effect to so many other things....its making the whole team look ****

[TRO]

22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Today's game is brought to you by a great big sigh.

I don't get it, I'm not entirely convinced we deserved to lose that game, I thought we were the better side for the first hour and the better side by a distance in the first half.

You don't get what you deserve though, you get what you go out and get - Antonio Conte has turned Spurs into a very Italian side, eight men defending around the box and a couple breaking on you - tactically Spurs have become hard to break down and then they have a couple of very dangerous weapons on the break - it's a triumph of practicality, Antonio neither dares nor dreams, he defends.

Even so, we broke through that defence enough times in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up - Lloris made several really good saves and it was only really a combination of him and some shoddy refereeing that was keeping them in it for the first forty-five minutes. Which they won 1-0.

I only really recall them being in our half three times in that first period, but they made sure to score on one of those visits - and that's the difference.

I think you have to review our performance in two separate chunks - one for the first hour when we were very good and we lost two nil, and one for the last half hour when things were more open, players were tiring and things were a bit messy, and we lost two nil.

While we played well, I thought the two Brazilians were excellent and Ramsey was very good - the triangle of Coutinho, Luiz and Ramsey with Digne to the left of them had Spurs all over the shop at times - Cash was also providing a threat down the other side and the centrebacks were providing a solid base behind. I thought Ings then should have put away one of a couple of chances, but he was positionally okay. For me, I thought that while we were playing very well, two things became clearer - Watkins for all his effort and his threat on the break isn't a good enough footballer for the clever stuff if looks like we want to play through the middle - when we're playing well, he looks like he doesn't fit in - the other thing was that John McGinn's passing isn't consistent enough, it's good one, bad one, and in the way we want to play, when everyone else is playing the ball around well, it sticks out. Both do good stuff, but I'm not sure they're right for the system when we're playing well - and I want us to play well more often.

While we played well, what was clear was that we needed a striker - the build up play was excellent, we controlled midfield completely, we were an almost constant threat, but there was no end product at the top end of things, the ball would fizz into the striker and we didn't shoot or develop play - very often, we just lost the ball. I found myself wondering if we might have won the game with Davis and Archer - which I'm not sure is actually a sensible argument for me to be having in my head, as we had enough quality on the pitch in order to win it anyway, and for much of the game we were playing like we would.

During the last half an hour, when we didn't play as well, I think it showed a little bit of a lack of depth - we didn't have a striker on the bench and we didn't replace any of the midfielders with fresh legs - if he doesn't trust Sanson at this point to do that, we're going to need someone else. We occasionally looked a little exposed and I suspect we might benefit from a rangy defensive midfielder who can cover breaks - I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that - but mostly, I again found myself wishing we had a striker. It's sort of understandable given the way the game had gone up to the second goal that heads would drop, I think the players shared my disbelief, but it was over as soon as the second goal went in and we didn't have anyone on the bench that could galvanise this side.

Spurs continue to be a fancy-dan classless group of players and fans that genuinely believe that they are significantly better than they are - they ole'd a passing movement in the 91st minute that I think may have been only their second period of sustained passing in the entire match for example, and I expect they'll believe they fully deserved the four goal margin. If I had a partner that went down and stayed down as easily as Tottenham, I'd never leave the house. I'll be rooting for Arsenal.

For us, I'd like the manager to shut up about the summer and think about his next game - that's four defeats on the bounce and only one win in our last six homes games - some of those have been tough fixtures, but Norwich at home has weirdly become a sort of must-win. If we play like we did in the first half that win will come, we were really good for an hour today - but we have to learn the lessons being taught by Kane and Son; we have to take chances, we have to turn chances and possession and domination into goals, and we can't necessarily wait until the summer to do that.

The players were applauded off at half time and deserved it, they didn't deserve to lose 4-0, it just wasn't a 4-0 sort of game. 

There's a big lesson available from this one.

 

 

 

I agree with most of that, except the bit about the centre backs being solid.....Konsa was at fault for at least 3 errors against Kane....2 in the air, where he had time to place headers to Son and Kulusevski......Kane is good at it, but it can't be made that easy with no contact.

Edited April 10, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

22 hours ago, El Segundo said:

Difficult to know what to make of that.

My emotions went from anger at gifting a goal after 3 minutes yet again, to delight at the way we murdered them for the rest if the half tinged with frustration that we couldn’t make it pay.

Digne was having Emerson on toast down the left, Coutinho was great, and the others were all doing their bit. Lloris, poor finishing, and over-elaboration were the only reasons we weren’t 3-1 or 4-1 up at half time and I was optimistic we’d get back into it.   Then we just decided to give a couple of world class players the run of our half.  Bonkers.

Konsa has become a liability and Chambers or Hause should be in ahead of him.  What the **** was that weak header under no pressure straight to Kane to gift a goal, utter shit.

I’ve said it before and I know a lot of people will disagree vehemently and call it blasphemy but I honestly do not think Martinez is a top notch keeper, certainly not a good low shot stopper.   Should Kolosveski really have been beating him from there? It’s not the first low shot that he should have saved but hasn’t, not by a long way.  Very slow to get down to the low ones. Ask yourself if Lloris would have let that one past him.

Overall it was no better or different to a lot of schizo-type performances under Smith.  One more defeat and StevieG has matched Smith’s 5 defeats in a row, having already come close to it.  Progress? Hmm doesn’t feel like it.

 

I think Martinez's edge has been lost with the demise of the team.....These stupid errors in defence are affecting everyone.

I agree, Hause or chambers should come in, for Konsa.

[TRO]

On 09/04/2022 at 21:33, Shirtman said:

Positives, in first half. Just unlucky and poor finishing.

Wouldn't blame Gerrard for this one, although Conte's sky interview made me think about leadership. He said that he assesses the talent he has and builds a team around it. Gerrard seems to have a system and wants to coerce our players into it whatever their qualities.

 

I think the quality and balance in Conte's squad, makes his point feasible.

give him our squad, with hardly a natural defensive authority in sight..... see if he can select a team around that?

Edited April 11, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

21 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

The result was very much as predicted but Villa's performance was a lot better than expected.

Like some up and coming team from a lower division Villa created a lot of chances but lacked the class to convert them.

It was all a bit 1971 League Cup final with Harry Kane repising the Martin Chivers role.

Only in 1972 Villa defended a lot better.

Villa weren't bad but they weren't quite good enough.

 

 

 

Villa wasn't bad at all overall, particulary first half.....we just made howlers, of defensive errors.....and keep on doing it.

We are just witing to be mugged in most games......these defensive errors, can't be just passed over as irrelevant to the main parts of the game.....they are the main parts of the game.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

What has happened to Mings and Konsa? Both have regressed massively since Smith left.

Watkins and Ings need to  practice finishing next week at Bodymoor. Had more than enough chances in the first half to get back into the game. 

Also can Luiz stop on the set pieces as he is largely awful on it.

I should play some of the kids in the next weeks as the season is over. I would like to try out Chambers in midfield or start to play Nakamba again.

I struggle to see the next win really. I don't see us finishing a huge amount above 40 points. Next summer will be a huge rebuild. 

Do we trust Gerrard to do this?

Its a major, major issue, but it has manifested itself from having nothing in front of them.....particularly Konsa who's form has deserted him.

It was always going to happen.....seen it in the past.This is what happens when holes in the team are left to fester.

It will be the Goal keeper next.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, AV82 said:

The difference today was one world class forward. If Son and Watkins had changed places today I’m very confident we’d have won the match comfortably.

I would say the same about Hojbjerg and Bentancur too.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Imagine those two in our team, would be challenging Wolves so simply have to attempt to get in players of that standard in the summer.

we need a bit of star dust, sprinkled on the scouts, to find players that work, (in both contexts)

[MakemineVanilla]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Villa wasn't bad at all overall, particulary first half.....we just made howlers, of defensive errors.....and keep on doing it.

We are just witing to be mugged in most games......these defensive errors, can't be just passed over as irrelevant to the main parts of the game.....they are the main parts of the game.

Despite Konsa's poor defensive header, it has to be acknowledged that the ricochet was incredibly fortuitous for Tottenham, and have their goalkeeper to thank for staying in the game.

Conte knew that to get back in the game, Villa would need to play a high line, and he changed Tottenham's shape accordingly. 

It was only a matter of time that Spurs would add to their score and by the end I was glad it never got any worse than four.

With such bad luck and Konsa making two fatal errors in two consecutive matches, he might want to consult an exorcist.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, nick76 said:

Oh the score line of 4-0 you don’t care about.  Glad we were outstanding despite conceding a sloppy goal and not taking any of our chances first half but yes we were the better team.  Great, we get a participation award!

But Gerrard is an upgrade and surely we could at least reduce the mistakes through coaching yet we are exactly the same.

We lost 4-0, we’ve lost the last 4 games, we’ve conceded 9 goals and scored 2.  Our strikers can’t score, our defenders look like conceding a goal or two every game without really trying.

Because we’ve only won 4 in the last 15 total games since Xmas.  Losing 4-0 is bad…let me say that again…we lost 4-0 of course the result is going to be talked about to death because we lost 4-0 following three defeats and now 14 points in 14 games plus defeat in the cup.

I assume the same slaughtering rightly deserved and he got sacked because of similar type results

Untruths? You give stats that say we were the better team yet we lost 4-0.  You aren’t saying untruth but neither are we but the only fact that in the end matters is 4-0 defeat just like 4 wins in 15 total games, just like 14 points in the last 14 games.  So we play really well one half but go in 1-0 down and you want us to be delighted? Then concede 3 goals second half.  
 

something we agree about.

You seem to want us to be delighted about 45 mins, ignoring the 1-0 half time score, conceding 3 goals second half, not being able to defend, not being able to score and after the poor results and many poor performances since Xmas.  

Just fantasy land!

Nick, I think what JV is saying is....while the result is pants, the performance in the first half showed signs of not all is doom and gloom.

I know most fans will turn to the poor attempts in front of goal.....but I buried my head in my hands at the defending, particularly in the air for Kanes assists.....its passive play and these things are undoing us.

I know, we could have scored goals and the misses can't be dismissed.....but equally, we could have had a 0-0 draw too, if we wasn't so benevolent to the opposition.

I understand that Kane and Son are top class.....but they don't have to be, as other teams can testify with that kind of defending.....I would make changes after that,shit show of defending, even if it was a token gesture.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, rjw63 said:

Everyone keeps talking about Kane and Son. 

When did Spuds sign Kane's son? He must only be about six and he's already scoring against Villa. 

might well have been his son, even he could win headers against our pitiful lot.