Team shape, tactics and personnel

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

50 minutes ago, VillaAlex said:

One concern ATM and it was very apparent in pre season was that the Premier League sides we faced had started to use late midfield runners to breach our high line. With the lack of recovery pace of no Moreno and now Mings we need to be very careful against sides with strong midfield runners. Typically yesterday we faced Newcastle who have a midfield full of them.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Moreno and Ramsey both out I think have destroyed our balance. We were playing better last season when Cash/Young was the defensive full back

JPB I would play vs Everton as am alternative to Ramsey

Moreno made some outstanding last ditch tackles last season, and saved us points which some may have overlooked.

Aside from his obvious attacking qualities.

Agree though, Moreno and JJ are massive misses.

[DJBOB]

Yeah I agree that Unai is struggling with the balance of the squad. JJ and Buendia out means we miss out on that blend of effective pressing transitioning into a creative attack whether it’s through JJ’s carrying or Buendia’s passing. 
 
Epitomised by bringing on Tielemans at LM, who can pull the strings with a partner in the middle but doesn’t have the same ability to win the ball and then launch an attack with it. 
 
Unai wants to play with a press and trap to contain the opponent but without relentless pressers like JJ and Buendia, our options have suddenly narrowed in just one week. 
 
Unai will figure it out but it might be a few weeks until reinforcements come in that we see the same type of play we had before. 

[IrishVilla10]

I’m absolutely fed up watching us allow teams to attack us from set pieces, we were the third worst team in the league for goals conceded from them last season and it’s definitely hasn’t improved watching yesterday

[DJBOB]

https://x.com/talkintactics/status/1690736574508466178?s=46&t=7xbyQc9iTNKPf9yZHVZH2g
 

Solidifes what I thought of the rare game Unai was outthought tactically. By the time Unai switched to the 532 to try and nullify this build up, it was too late and our wingbacks were not comfortable pressing high. 
 
Look at the no man’s land for Bailey, Tielemans and Kamara. Newcastle vacated the middle and flooded the flanks, successfully escaping any pressure. 

[Don_Simon]

Watching the Villa game yesterday and bits of the Chelsea v Liverpool game today, what really stood out is how small our team is compared to others.

Newcastle were intimidating. Chelsea have some absolute units. We have John McGinn's ass. 

It's a problem. (Lack of size, not SJMs ass).

[Monkeypuzzle]

Lots of people seem to be talking about us needing or getting a left winger in. This confuses me as when I have watched us play under Emery we have never used our left midfielder as a winger. Ramsey played the role most often and he was tasked with cutting in and occupying more of a left/central attacking midfield role, leaving space for Moreno or Digne to run past on the outside. He would frequently drive into the box from central areas too. Our right midfielder was often tasked with playing a more winger like role, staying wide and running the flank. When McGinn started to play just behind Watkins and Bailey switched to this wide right position, this is when we saw the best of each.

Buendia had sometimes struggled for space and time on the ball when playing behind Watkins and ended up relegated to the bench quite often last season, but in preseason he took on the Ramsey, left/attacking midfield role and it seemed to suit him much better. It is similar to the role he played on the right with Norwich. Not a traditional, down the line winger, using pace and dribbling to make an impact, but rather avoiding focus by starting out wide, then cutting in and either driving forward or playing a killer through ball before he could be closed down.

Many on VillaTalk have been complaining that we don't have a top quality right footed winger to play on the left, but if we did that we couldn't use our full backs in the same way. If we want someone to play that Ramsey/new Buendia role then we want a right footed attacker with a more central role and a bit more drive and strength about him as opposed to a pacey winger. This is why I'm not surprised that McGinn played there yesterday. He was the logical choice in that role.

A loan is the most logical move for that position as our first two choices are both out and Coutinho doesn't have the strength required for that role against top teams. When fit though, Ramsey and Buendia will do nicely for that position. McGinn was doing well in the Bergkamp role and doesn't play right wing as well as he does more centrally. Diaby seems able to play either the Bergkamp role or right wing. Zaniolo can play both roles too so that moves makes perfect sense, especially with his size and strength.

If we do try to get a replacement in for Ramsey/Buendia, I imagine it will be someone like Lo Celso or Guendouzi rather than a left winger. I'd be happy with either of them. I do think we need to bring in a right back too. I'm not fussed about getting a new centre back in to cover Mings. That's what Torres is for. We still have four fit centre backs, three of whom are top notch.

Zaniolo, a right back (just not Foyth, someone who won't cost £35 million) possibly a Ramsey/Buendia stand in and a new striker are where out remaining efforts will go I think.

 

                                                  Watkins/Archer/Davis/Duran

                                                       McGinn/Diaby/Coutinho     

Ramsey/Buendia                                                                           Bailey/Traore/Philogene-Bidace

                                Luiz/Tielemans/Iroegbunam          Kamara/Dendoncker

Moreno/Digne          Mings/Torres/Hause          Carlos/Konsa           Cash/Chambers

                                                 Martinez/Olsen

Injured players in bold as far as I know. That's 9/28 of our squad. One third! Luckily we have such depth in most positions that only left midfield is in real trouble right now. However it is the right hand side that probably needs the most help.

 

[IrishVilla10]

I don’t agree with 90% with this account posts but some of these concerns are valid imo. 

 

[Tomaszk]

6 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

https://x.com/ebl2017/status/1690674064292040704?s=46&t=sTGvjtf6_DViKOnngWTX0w I don’t agree with 90% with this account posts but some of these concerns are valid imo. 

Nah. He's got a bee in his bonnet about Emery. And he's wrong.

We whipped Newcastle a few months ago.

I have no clue why Emery changed system, and I'm very surprised he did. Hopefully he doesn't again.

[JPJCB]

6 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

https://x.com/ebl2017/status/1690674064292040704?s=46&t=sTGvjtf6_DViKOnngWTX0w I don’t agree with 90% with this account posts but some of these concerns are valid imo. 

I found that thread completely incoherent (maybe you can explain what it’s trying to say)!

It mentions some tactical stuff which sort of makes sense (emery likes to play a high line but does so inconsistently; emery’s build up doesn’t work at times because he needs better players) but then fails to discuss why exactly villa did so well last year (if emery had been in place from day one we would have reached CL places) or why Emery is particularly successful in cups (some rubbish about moments of magic meaning that tactics aren’t as important- ok fine, but that doesn’t explain why emery is uniquely good in cup competitions). He then says that our signings this year are of CL quality but emery will hold us back. Hang on a minute- wasn’t the problem with our build up that we don’t have good enough players- surely buying better players solved that problem. He then goes on to say that emery ain’t an elite manager which just seems bonkers given emery’s record and that de zerbi is miles better despite the latter having never won a major competition.

Im all for criticism of emery but it needs to have an ounce of coherence first 

[duke313]

2 hours ago, JPJCB said:

I found that thread completely incoherent (maybe you can explain what it’s trying to say)!

It mentions some tactical stuff which sort of makes sense (emery likes to play a high line but does so inconsistently; emery’s build up doesn’t work at times because he needs better players) but then fails to discuss why exactly villa did so well last year (if emery had been in place from day one we would have reached CL places) or why Emery is particularly successful in cups (some rubbish about moments of magic meaning that tactics aren’t as important- ok fine, but that doesn’t explain why emery is uniquely good in cup competitions). He then says that our signings this year are of CL quality but emery will hold us back. Hang on a minute- wasn’t the problem with our build up that we don’t have good enough players- surely buying better players solved that problem. He then goes on to say that emery ain’t an elite manager which just seems bonkers given emery’s record and that de zerbi is miles better despite the latter having never won a major competition.

Im all for criticism of emery but it needs to have an ounce of coherence first 

File it under bollocks. The comments are full of bitter Arsenal fans

Edited August 14, 2023 by duke313

[JPJCB]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

File it under bollocks. 

I should really let this go, but the below quote from that thread is genuinely one of the most incoherent things I’ve ever read:

“A team with such blatant tactical flaws will not make a dent in the Premier League this season when the quality is so high. They did last season because Villa have some top players that were badly mismanaged under Gerrard/other coaches + Emery is a good coach, but he ain't elite”

To paraphrase: Emery’s villa won’t do well; well apart from last season where they did do well but that was only because we have good players and Gerrard is rubbish(?) and emery is quite good

 

Ok then mate…

[DJBOB]

10 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

I don’t agree with 90% with this account posts but some of these concerns are valid imo. 

 

The only point made here is that high line without pressure is inviting disaster. 
 
Everything else is click bait to get views. He does a similar thing with Liverpool in his next thread. 

[Pinebro]

13 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

I don’t agree with 90% with this account posts but some of these concerns are valid imo. 

 

Non sense

[IrishVilla10]

8 hours ago, JPJCB said:

I found that thread completely incoherent (maybe you can explain what it’s trying to say)!

It mentions some tactical stuff which sort of makes sense (emery likes to play a high line but does so inconsistently; emery’s build up doesn’t work at times because he needs better players) but then fails to discuss why exactly villa did so well last year (if emery had been in place from day one we would have reached CL places) or why Emery is particularly successful in cups (some rubbish about moments of magic meaning that tactics aren’t as important- ok fine, but that doesn’t explain why emery is uniquely good in cup competitions). He then says that our signings this year are of CL quality but emery will hold us back. Hang on a minute- wasn’t the problem with our build up that we don’t have good enough players- surely buying better players solved that problem. He then goes on to say that emery ain’t an elite manager which just seems bonkers given emery’s record and that de zerbi is miles better despite the latter having never won a major competition.

Im all for criticism of emery but it needs to have an ounce of coherence first 

Yep that’s the 90% haha. https://x.com/ebl2017/status/1690674069467758592?s=46&t=sTGvjtf6_DViKOnngWTX0w This is the 10% and it’s completely valid and needs to change. And it’s the difference between what de zerbi etc are doing and we don’t seem to be. 
 

[briny_ear]

59 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Yep that’s the 90% haha. https://x.com/ebl2017/status/1690674069467758592?s=46&t=sTGvjtf6_DViKOnngWTX0w This is the 10% and it’s completely valid and needs to change. And it’s the difference between what de zerbi etc are doing and we don’t seem to be. 
 

I’m just trying to remember that saying about monkeys and typewriters. If he writes enough buzzwords in a long enough line, some may seem to make sense. 

For me, the opening salvo - Emery’s style is limited for league football/Emery achieved a massive turnaround in the league last year - made me think perhaps I wouldn’t persevere with the works of this tactical genius. Although it’s always helpful when people exp[ose the flaw in their thinking so early and so clearly.

[IrishVilla10]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

I’m just trying to remember that saying about monkeys and typewriters. If he writes enough buzzwords in a long enough line, some may seem to make sense. 

For me, the opening salvo - Emery’s style is limited for league football/Emery achieved a massive turnaround in the league last year - made me think perhaps I wouldn’t persevere with the works of this tactical genius. Although it’s always helpful when people exp[ose the flaw in their thinking so early and so clearly.

It may be a fair point though, exposed by Newcastle at the weekend exactly how to play against us. We were the highest over achievers in expected points last season under Emery, +12 points higher than our expected. And that’s why analysts are saying it may not be sustainable. We weren’t getting thrashed in games but take the Stamford bridge win for example, on another day that would have been 4-2 Chelsea and those results won’t always go our way. 

[Rolta]

3 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

It may be a fair point though, exposed by Newcastle at the weekend exactly how to play against us. We were the highest over achievers in expected points last season under Emery, +12 points higher than our expected. And that’s why analysts are saying it may not be sustainable. We weren’t getting thrashed in games but take the Stamford bridge win for example, on another day that would have been 4-2 Chelsea and those results won’t always go our way. 

For most clubs that 'on another day' works for every single loss and every single victory.

[IrishVilla10]

5 minutes ago, Rolta said:

For most clubs that 'on another day' works for every single loss and every single victory.

Of course, I’m just pointing out that the stats suggest we had more another days than anyone else last season. And that there’s a clear issue with our lack of high press. 

[andym]

Its funny that twitter thread specifically mentioned De Zerbi, who lost 4-1 last season at Newcastle, including a nearly identical goal to the 5th we let in on Saturday i.e. high line getting caught. Brighton also lost 5-1 at home to Everton with 4 of the 5 goals scored by getting caught high and countered. Those weren't the only times either.

The author of the thread is an Arsenal fan i think? They have a weird obsession with talking Emery down at every opportunity, its not like he slagged them off after he left. I wonder if he did twitter threads moaning about Arteta after the blew the league, shipping goals on the break and getting caught trying to play out in their own half e.g. Southampton at home?

[IrishVilla10]

9 minutes ago, andym said:

Its funny that twitter thread specifically mentioned De Zerbi, who lost 4-1 last season at Newcastle, including a nearly identical goal to the 5th we let in on Saturday i.e. high line getting caught. Brighton also lost 5-1 at home to Everton with 4 of the 5 goals scored by getting caught high and countered. Those weren't the only times either.

The author of the thread is an Arsenal fan i think? They have a weird obsession with talking Emery down at every opportunity, it’s not like he slagged them off after he left. I wonder if he did twitter threads moaning about Arteta after the blew the league, shipping goals on the break and getting caught trying to play out in their own half e.g. Southampton at home?

They also beat arsenal twice, Liverpool 3-0 and had a few other good results. They have a worse team than us imo and score more and concede less too. I think we see comparisons because we play similarly in some ways