tonyh29 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Radio interviewer today was talking about the usual too much drink can kill you etc , but one bit that was interesting was when the speaker referred to a study that showed sales of Alcohol dropped in comparrion to a rise in price of alcohol .. they are using this is a means to push for higher pricing and removal of buy one get one free offers on booze... anyway would having to pay more for drink stop you drinking ? ... paying more for petrol doesn't seem to have stopped us driving and how many people do you know that have given up smoking due to cost .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myb Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 There talking about a tax hike on alcohol to curb drinking and in particular the problems it leads to when youths decide to kick off after a few drinks. Why on earth should the law abiding majority again be forced to pay out more money because of the pathetic antics of a minority? The problem is the Governments. For years and years they have let discipline in schools slip, not allow parents to be tough on their kids and restrict police in what they are able to do to prevent the problem. Kids who drink and then go on to cause a public nuisance should be severely punished to stop them committing the same offence again. It is the only way they will learn. No more second chances… The thug who killed the guy in Warrington was out on police bail!! That is not the fault of cheap alcohol; that is the fault of an incompetent Government in control of a judicial system that almost contributes to the spiralling crime. It’s time to get tough on the perpetrators of crime, not simply tax people more for the privilege of buying alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 21, 2008 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2008 No. The cluture of this country is being damaged by Government f*ckwittage. Pubs in villages and towns are closing because of the level of tax on beer and the smoking ban. Meanwhile Tesco is knocking out alcopops and tramp juice at discount prices for kids to drink in bus stops. And people can go to France and get drink at half the price. There may well be a drinking problem in the UK, but tax is not the way to solve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 but in the 60's didn't we have mods and rockers clashing on bank holiday weekends turning some resorts into no go areas before that teddy boys in the 50's football hooligans in the 80's is it fair to blame everything on todays' youth , even today's government ? (boy ,that last bit hurt :-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 21, 2008 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2008 The government coffers must be a bit low, pick something the majority of people enjoy enough that they won't stop, and shove a bit more tax on it under the guise of being worried for our health. Anyway, raising the price, will I stop? No. I don't sit in bus stops knocking back hooch, I do however like going to a pub or a bar and having a drink and socialising, or having a couple in a club. Interestingly enough the price difference is already such across the country that in some places the prices cold end up verging on the ludicrous. I mean handing over a note at the bar and not getting any change for a pint mad. Which may stop people drinking (but not the ones they want to stop, rather people like myself and much of the rest of the population), but will also cause whatever withered faith the populaous has in the government to curl up and die. At best they'd be seen as even more of a laughing stock and at worst frauds, and perhaps if this kind of thing is to believed, some kind of governmental highway man, demanding money with menaces in an even more obvious way than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's not really about tax on alcohol. It is about supermarkets using cheap alcohol and offers as loss leaders. They (led by Tesco) are claiming that they cannot raise the price of alcohol because all the supermarkets would have to do it together and they'd be told off or prosecuted for price fixing. They are claiming that it would be artificially raising prices (rather than not artificially reducing prices). It's laughable really. The real problem is that if one supermarket raises the prices to a realistic level (i.e. more than cost) then they'll get stuffed by all the rest who won't. Therefore they can't take a unilateral stance. Because they can't get together with the other supermarkets to decide a common policy then there can't be a multilateral stance. So, Tesco have come out and said that it needs to be statutory. Nothing to do with tax or really to do with the price elasticity of demand of alcohol - just to do with how shops conduct themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This is on a non-stop loop on Sky News this morning. The presenter Dermot Murnaghan reckons there is a 'floor' on alcohol prices in France that sellers are not allowed to breach in terms of raising the minimum cost to put children off buying. I have a number of issues with this. Firstly, children are exposed to alcohol from a young age in France. Alcohol is not a taboo to be investigated in the local park at fifteen. And secondly, when I last visited a French supermarket, I was able to buy a tasty bottle of table wine for about 1E20 - About 80p at the time. If the government were to try and legislate in such a manner in this country, what would be the starting price for a four-pack of Wifey or a bottle of Stollie? I'm 32. I had my first taste of alcohol in a park at about 14 the same way most English people did yet in the 18 years since, I have never ended up in a fight, in hospital or arrested. Alcohol is not the problem, irresponsible fuckwits is the problem, and they are breeding like rabbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's not really about tax on alcohol. it's interesting though that the conclusion that people appear to have come to was that it was a tax , even though my original post didn't mention the word tax could it just be a sign of how people view this government ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Would paying more stop me drinking? No. If the price was high enough, might I be forced to drink less? Of course, no one has an infinite amount of money. But the problems with Britain's booze culture can't be solved as easily as by rising prices. People get drunk and behave like idiots because idiots is what they are, stopping them drinking won't change that. They'll find another excuse to go out and fight on a Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's not really about tax on alcohol. it's interesting though that the conclusion that people appear to have come to was that it was a tax , even though my original post didn't mention the word tax could it just be a sign of how people view this government ? I agree that it is interesting that this is the automatic conclusion at which people arrive. I'm not sure it's a view on this government but on governments per se. Interesting that this is NOT a government proposal (they have got a study group - related to Sheffield Uni, I think - which is due to report later in the year). It is a BMA report which is being backed (in public atleast) by Tesco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 21, 2008 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2008 It's not really about tax on alcohol. it's interesting though that the conclusion that people appear to have come to was that it was a tax , even though my original post didn't mention the word tax could it just be a sign of how people view this government ? There could be something in this, but also it could be that myb introduced the idea of the government mooting investigating a tax hike on booze in the first reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Brilliant. The latest loop on Sky showed cut price beer in Tesco with a voice-over telling how it is wrong. The problem? They were focusing on Peeterman Artois at £2.48 for a four-pack. IIRC, it's 2% alcohol. Hardly a problem, that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I'll have to correct what I said earlier and admit that I had jumped to the conclusion that it was a rehash of the story doing the rounds for the last month or two which was about loss leaders. The BMA report is a lot more detailed and there is indeed a large amount about increasing tax at above inflation levels because apparently booze has become 65% more affordable since 1980 though it has been increasing along the lines of inflation (I'm assuming this is therefore to do with average earnings increase, then?). So I was wrong in my 'it's not really about tax' comments. :oops: However, I will reiterate this isn't a government proposal but it is a BMA one. The report was probably written on the back of a fag packet in the corner of pub. :winkold: Only kidding to all you doctors out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Brilliant. The latest loop on Sky showed cut price beer in Tesco with a voice-over telling how it is wrong. The problem? They were focusing on Peeterman Artois at £2.48 for a four-pack. IIRC, it's 2% alcohol. Hardly a problem, that stuff. Peeterman Artois is 4% from memory. I thought they brought it in to compete with becks vier. I might look that up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I could be wrong there. They released two new beers about the same time and one was a 2% beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 That pole is a bit of a simplification by the way. It might have been better to say "If prices were rased would you drink less" rather than stop compleately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Increase the legal age of drinking to 25! Might make it harder for for children to openly drink on street corners, and would also reduce the amount of fuckwittery we see in our town centres every weekend by kids who can't hold their ale, which costs the taxpayer billions each year to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 ... paying more for petrol doesn't seem to have stopped us driving .. eh? :? you've got me here tone. Petrol is usaully more of a necessity than a luxury. People need petrol to get from A to B, to get tow rok, to the supermarket, to deliver goods to factories etc, etc. The luxury petrol spend i'd guess is a very small part of the petrol market. Alcy-hol, on the other hand, is a want, not a need (unless you are an actaul alocholic, which is weher the line is more blurred), and so this is not, IMO, a valid comparsion. Putting the cost of alcohol up would probably mean i would buy a little less, which would be no bad thing, but i think they are talkimg about the cheap end of the market here anyway, the special offers and the ludicrously cheap "lighter fuel" type ciders & beers, so this wouldn't affect your "standard/adult" drinker too much, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 No. There may well be a drinking problem in the UK, but tax is not the way to solve it. very true Pete. how to "outlaw" tramp juice might be more of a step forward..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Putting the price up won't solve anything. I think people will continue to drink too much regardless. As we're on the subject of alcohol personally I've been considering giving up the demon drink just recently, or at least totally cutting back my consumption to a glass of wine or a pint of beer every now and then or at xmas or family occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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