Israel, Palestine and Iran

[fruitvilla]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

It is also complex on another level, in that Israel is by its own definition a Jewish state. That makes it problematic for things like cultural and demographic change that naturally occur over time in a society.

Have you been to Israel?

Try visiting the Arab city of Nazaret.

[Thug]

38 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

Do you believe people have rights to own land?

Yes.

[fruitvilla]

1 minute ago, Thug said:

Yes.

OK good. How did they get the rights?

[Thug]

33 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

@Thugthe ethnic origins of the Jewish population of Israel are much more complex than you seem to realise. Certainly not all Europeans, and the Mizrahi Jews have lived there as long as the Palestinians.

Plus Zionist migrations started over a century ago, and we now have most of the population of Israel having been born there, so unless you’re now arguing that a black British person born in London doesn’t have a right to be here, I’m not sure what your point is.

The historical rights and wrongs of the creation of Israel are something that can’t be reversed.

The only relevant question is how we arrive at a solution which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. That’s not very straightforward at all as long as there are influential Israelis who just want to bomb the Palestinians out of existence, and influential Palestinians who’d be keen on doing the same to Israel.

Israel are evicting the Palestinians from their homes and ‘settling’ there.

im not talking about the historical wrongs and rights.  I’m talking CURRENT.

 

[Thug]

1 minute ago, fruitvilla said:

OK good. How did they get the rights?

They bought the land.

I know where you are going with this.

Not once have I said the Jewish people don’t have the right to be there.

Not ONCE.

The first ones that went over bought their land. 
Fair do.

If you don’t know what’s been going on since, then get out from under your rock.

[Dodgyknees]

2 hours ago, osmark86 said:

With how easy it is to fake videos/audio/images and mass distribute them these days it's just a mess. AI age is going to be tough on humanity most likely. I could make something like this myself if I wanted to.

Did a course recently and part of it was AI related. The main speaker said they had a special guest videoing in - and it ended up being a very famous celeb - ULTRA realistic but we knew it was fake cos of the course. But it was so so good and very scary. They also showed one of Biden threatening Putin with a nuclear strike.

[fruitvilla]

1 minute ago, Thug said:

They bought the land.

How does buying land bestow rights?

[Thug]

Just now, fruitvilla said:

How does buying land bestow rights?

Just say what you want to say, I’m not playing this 20 questions game

[Thug]

42 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

@Thugthe ethnic origins of the Jewish population of Israel are much more complex than you seem to realise. Certainly not all Europeans, and the Mizrahi Jews have lived there as long as the Palestinians.

Plus Zionist migrations started over a century ago, and we now have most of the population of Israel having been born there, so unless you’re now arguing that a black British person born in London doesn’t have a right to be here, I’m not sure what your point is.

The historical rights and wrongs of the creation of Israel are something that can’t be reversed.

The only relevant question is how we arrive at a solution which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. That’s not very straightforward at all as long as there are influential Israelis who just want to bomb the Palestinians out of existence, and influential Palestinians who’d be keen on doing the same to Israel.

You’ve joined the conversation mid-point and don’t understand that my response was to another poster claiming the Jewish people of Europe were the indigenous population and suggesting that their claim to the land was real.

My post was proving that there were people there before them.

If you bother to read the whole conversation, you will understand that it is me that you are agreeing with.

The black man living in London has every right to be there.  If some bat-ass crazy pulled him out of his home and moved some white family in because ‘their ancestors from 4000 years ago lived there’ you’d think WTAF. No?

[fruitvilla]

8 minutes ago, Thug said:

Just say what you want to say, I’m not playing this 20 questions game

OK 'rights' are a social construct and meaningless beyond the social construct.

[Thug]

1 minute ago, fruitvilla said:

OK 'rights' are a social construct and meaningless beyond the social construct.

**** me, you were gonna take me through an hour of to-ing and fro-ing for that bullshit sentence?

[chrisp65]

On the bombing of the hospital, it’s quite interesting isn’t it to see the hawks with hard ons for war on both sides trying to look like the innocent party in their game of bombing each other.

Alex Thompson (Channel 4) has a few interesting tweets on the subject. That it has been confirmed that Israel have form here as they had already hit that hospital and killed 4 people. That they’ve stopped the ‘normal’ knocking with smaller bombs as there isn’t time so they are bombing without warning. That the tape of the conversation admitting the bombing by two jihadi’s is clearly an absurd fake. That the direction of travel suggested by the IDF for the errant missile doesn’t match the video footage. But also from the other side claiming to have evidence but can’t show it. That the damage doesn’t match a missile strike impact.

All of which is drowning out the Israeli bombing of a UN shelter in a school that killed 6 people.

All of which telling you that in the heat of war everyone has an agenda, just some are a bit slicker at looking like experts, when in reality they are just selling you something.

[Thug]

2 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

OK 'rights' are a social construct and meaningless beyond the social construct.

That’s exactly what the Israeli say about human rights

 

 

[fruitvilla]

1 minute ago, Thug said:

That’s exactly what the Israeli say about human rights

You are buying into your own rhetoric here.

3 minutes ago, Thug said:

for that bullshit sentence?

Do you actually have an argument?

[chrisp65]

7 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

OK 'rights' are a social construct and meaningless beyond the social construct.

If, hypothetically, I came along with a bunch of mates and bulldozed your house and left you homeless with no possessions, and got military protection to build my own house and take over your olive oil business would you consider that a social construct?

[Thug]

1 minute ago, fruitvilla said:

You are buying into your own rhetoric here.

Do you actually have an argument?

You clearly don’t!

I was waiting for something genuinely interesting. Lol, and you hit me with that!

’rights are just a social construct’

wtf dude

So no one has rights??

 

So human rights (also a social construct) are worthless?  

 

 

[Thug]

14 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

OK 'rights' are a social construct and meaningless beyond the social construct.

On a serious level, what was your point?! Other than say no one has rights?

[KentVillan]

32 minutes ago, Thug said:

Israel are evicting the Palestinians from their homes and ‘settling’ there.

im not talking about the historical wrongs and rights.  I’m talking CURRENT.

 

Understood - fair point

[Panto_Villan]

10 minutes ago, Thug said:

You’ve joined the conversation mid-point and don’t understand that my response was to another poster claiming the Jewish people of Europe were the indigenous population and suggesting that their claim to the land was real.

My post was proving that there were people there before them.

If you bother to read the whole conversation, you will understand that it is me that you are agreeing with.

The black man living in London has every right to be there.  If some bat-ass crazy pulled him out of his home and moved some white family in because ‘their ancestors from 4000 years ago lived there’ you’d think WTAF. No?

The black man in London might be a bad example there.

Do you think white people in America have a right to remain there? Do you think Anglo-Saxons have a right to live and remain in the UK?

The point being made (so far as I can see) is that you don’t need to be there first to have a claim to the land. At a certain point you have to accept that the new occupiers have been on the land long enough that they too have rights to it, even if they originally took the lands by force.

Thats obviously not the case for the Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank territories, but it is true for Israel proper.

Do you disagree with any of that? It’s sometimes hard to track what you’re arguing for given the numbers of posts you’re making.

[OutByEaster?]

Watching Israeli ambassador Tzipi Hotovely on Channel 4 news was horrifying - any remaining hope for this situation well and truly extinguished- if she's representative of the current feeling in Israel's corridors of power then a million people will die.