peterms Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (Deuteronomy chapter 13, TEV) 12 "When you are living in the towns that the Lord your God gives you, you may hear 13 that some worthless people of your nation have misled the people of their town to worship gods that you have never worshiped before. 14 If you hear such a rumor, investigate it thoroughly; and if it is true that this evil thing did happen, 15 then kill all the people in that town and all their livestock too. Destroy that town completely. 16 Bring together all the possessions of the people who live there and pile them up in the town square. Then burn the town and everything in it as an offering to the Lord your God. It must be left in ruins forever and never again be rebuilt." Think I might read this out on the coach to the next away game :winkold: Sounds like Clint Eastwood at the end of Unforgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I have a question for Terry and/or Beth if they wouldn't mind answering. In terms of good and evil as earlier in this thread it was mentioned that the good things we do are the act of God within us and the bad things are not - If someone does something in good concience and in good faith, believing that it was the will of God or that it does not abhor the law of God but it turns out that it was not the will of God at all and that it impinges on God's law, is that person good or evil and is the act in question the act of God or not? (For example, it could be a schizophrenia sufferer believing that God is commanding him to do certain things or it could be a member of a tribe living in a remote region of the world who believes that it is acceptable to steal from the rich and give to the poor - Robin Hood esque if you like). Also, if God were to come to you in your dreams and tell you to sacrifice a loved one or if Michael commanded this what would you do? Obviously this is against the law of the land but it could be considered to be God's law if He so commands. I'm not trying to catch you out at all but I am just trying to put some context to some of the responses I have read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (For example, it could be a schizophrenia sufferer believing that God is commanding him to do certain things.... Hi Tom, I will assist you in putting some context to your thoughts, since I am fairly familiar with a situation that would apply here. I do know of someone who suffers from schizophrenia very badly. It is very plain for anyone to see. He claims to hear voices and says that he receive revelations from an invisible God. His name is George Bush, and as you know is Commander of the most powerful, most deadly military the world has ever seen. He claims to have heard a voice which told him to invade Iraq. This in and of itself was somewhat of a horrible situation, but Mr. Bush could not do this alone. He needed someone to believe in his schizophrenia. Lo and behold, up pops the Poodle/Clone (Tony Blair) who must also be suffering from schizophrenia, for he stood behind Mr. Bush in these hallucinations. Then Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush send each other little secrets that their spin doctors create which are released to the press. My question is this; If this psychopath (Mr. Blair) tells you that you must send your children and citizens to be sacrificed in more pointless wars (Iraq/Iran); would you do it? Since most men in western civilizations are somewhat literate (I know, I’m being generous here) they must be somewhat informed that some of their tax dollars are spent killing innocent people and raping them literally, and also of their resources. Everyone knows that these murderous activities are against the law of the land, yet you are asked to be an accessory to murder by paying a soldier to do your killing for you. My second question is this’; would you be an accomplice to murder by paying for it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Since most men in western civilations are somewhat litterate (I know, I’m being generous here) I also hope you were being ironic. There's some terrible spelling in there mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Thanks. I missed the spell check process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Beth---Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the time you took to type them out, I had one last wonderment. Does the group as a whole or on the average, prefer the KJV of the Bible, and if so, why? Hello Sparky. I can't speak for everyone, without taking a survey, but I think on the whole our folks use the KJV as their standard. But we also enjoy looking up things in other versions, especially the Amplified, just to get a larger, fuller view of the heavenly truths. I know some of us, me included, really enjoy looking up the original Hebrew and Greek meanings of things. Father has often spoken very precious, deeply personal messages to me as I have done this. But to me, nothing touches and enlightens my spirit like the King James. For the most part, the old English word choices seem to convey the true meaning of the spiritual realities that the Father would open up to mankind, more than any other version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_loes Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Beth---Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the time you took to type them out, I had one last wonderment. Does the group as a whole or on the average, prefer the KJV of the Bible, and if so, why? Hello Sparky. I can't speak for everyone, without taking a survey, but I think on the whole our folks use the KJV as their standard. But we also enjoy looking up things in other versions, especially the Amplified, just to get a larger, fuller view of the heavenly truths. I know some of us, me included, really enjoy looking up the original Hebrew and Greek meanings of things. Father has often spoken very precious, deeply personal messages to me as I have done this. But to me, nothing touches and enlightens my spirit like the King James. For the most part, the old English word choices seem to convey the true meaning of the spiritual realities that the Father would open up to mankind, more than any other version. Do you accept that James 1 had sizeable amounts of the Bible (his version) written specifically for the purposes of rule. Some probably by Francis Bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 ...If someone does something in good concience and in good faith, believing that it was the will of God or that it does not abhor the law of God but it turns out that it was not the will of God at all and that it impinges on God's law, is that person good or evil and is the act in question the act of God or not? (For example, it could be a schizophrenia sufferer... God judges a person by the heart, not the outward actions. I am not saying He does not judge the actions; of course He does. But a person with a good heart — one that loves God's Spirit and follows it — can be ignorant or make mistakes, while being in their integrity. God's Spirit can and does work with such a person, to guide them out of their errors and into all truth. Also, He alone knows what He requires of each soul. All He ever requires of anyone is that they walk in all the Light that He Himself has given them opportunity to receive. They might not even have heard of "God's Spirit," "Jesus" or "Michael," or a "Bible" full of the principles of life. They may only have an intrinsic love of goodness and truth, and the integrity to follow it at all times. Such a person is a son of God. Take two schizophrenia sufferers: the truth that would heal them is laid before them both. One loves and receives the truth, and is healed; the other turns from the truth and instead chooses to cling to the demons he has loved, and keep believing their lies. The Light comes to both, and the opportunity to be healed. One takes it, and one does not. In this manner, every man judges himself. Also, if God were to come to you in your dreams and tell you to sacrifice a loved one or if Michael commanded this what would you do? ... Yes, we always do what God tells us to do. AND, we know Who is telling us. We know God; we know His character, and that He would not ever ask anyone to do anything that is truly hurtful, or that violates the principles of His kingdom. We know His Voice, and can distinguish it from the voice of our self or of His enemy. The real issue, then, is "How do we know?" We know because we have been given the gift of knowing. This is the gift of His Spirit. It is given to those who believe. The bottom line is, do you know and love the Voice of God? Or do you know and love your own voice, and the voice of God's enemy? I know Michael is true because I know the Spirit of God that lives in me, and that Spirit has always given me a clear witness to the verity of what Michael says and does. For example, very, very often, the Father will show me something, and then right afterwards I'll hear Michael speak or I'll read something he's written, and it is the exact same thing — often even using the exact same words. The Bible calls this having "two witnesses." It says that "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, a thing is established (you can know it's true)." So the crux of the whole matter is this: do you believe Michael and this "cult" are hearing and following the Spirit of God, or their own delusions? You will answer this question according to the spirit that is in you. Everyone will; that's just how it works. And by this, as every man judges, so will they be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b23avfc Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Crazy gang - Would you accept that the Bible teaches that true worshippers will be united across the whole globe, people from different races, nations, cultures, backgrounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Crazy gang - Would you accept that the Bible teaches that true worshippers will be united across the whole globe, people from different races, nations, cultures, backgrounds... True worshippers ARE united -- across all races, nations, cultures, backgrounds... I said what a son of God is in my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b23avfc Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Crazy gang - Would you accept that the Bible teaches that true worshippers will be united across the whole globe, people from different races, nations, cultures, backgrounds... True worshippers ARE united -- across all races, nations, cultures, backgrounds... I said what a son of God is in my last post. You people aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I have no problem with you people..you may think or do what you want as long as you are not hurting other people...and you all seem to be very fond of this michael.. If this michael really is the Messiah,what is he doing living in this camp in america..why cant he walk over the atlantic and help the starving kids in africa ? There are 10.000 children dieing evry day..why can't anyone help them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futumtch Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 If this michael really is the Messiah,what is he doing living in this camp in america..why cant he walk over the atlantic and help the starving kids in africa ? There are 10.000 children dieing evry day..why can't anyone help them ? He's not that sort of Messiah. He's not here to sort out world economics/politics or to combat evil or eradicate diseases. He's here to live like on a what looks like a trailer park on a remote piece of desert and hook up with a few chicks while the rest of us spiral down into oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanifa Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 If this michael really is the Messiah,what is he doing living in this camp in america..why cant he walk over the atlantic and help the starving kids in africa ? There are 10.000 children dieing evry day..why can't anyone help them ? He's not that sort of Messiah. He's not here to sort out world economics/politics or to combat evil or eradicate diseases. He's here to live like on a what looks like a trailer park on a remote piece of desert and hook up with a few chicks while the rest of us spiral down into oblivion. You know not of what you speak. The work of a true believer, be he Messiah or street sweeper or anything in between, is to hear the Voice of God and follow His instructions to them, regardless of the consequences. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaninireland Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 If this michael really is the Messiah,what is he doing living in this camp in america..why cant he walk over the atlantic and help the starving kids in africa ? There are 10.000 children dieing evry day..why can't anyone help them ? He's not that sort of Messiah. He's not here to sort out world economics/politics or to combat evil or eradicate diseases. He's here to live like on a what looks like a trailer park on a remote piece of desert and hook up with a few chicks while the rest of us spiral down into oblivion. You know not of what you speak. The work of a true believer, be he Messiah or street sweeper or anything in between, is to hear the Voice of God and follow His instructions to them, regardless of the consequences. Do you? I find the regardless of the consequences bit very disturbing. So if god told Michael to sleep with young girls then this would be ok would it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Depends how young ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanifa Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I find the regardless of the consequences bit very disturbing. So if god told Michael to sleep with young girls then this would be ok would it ? You ask this from the context of your own humanity. That is somewhat like a child trying to carry his father's toolbox when the father is a steam fitter or truck mechanic. It's literally impossible. God only asks that we let Him be God. Since "God is love", all He does is in and for love's sake. Human minds cannot comprehend this love because all it knows is the self-centered, sentimental variety that only uses another individual for satisfying its own needs. God's instructions are always purposed to benefit all. Although one may not understand why they are being instructed to do a certain thing, performing that instruction will yield it's own understanding, as well as reward, after it is completed. NOT doing the instruction may very well leave the individual not only disappointed but broken and insane. What is "ok" about God's instructions is trusting that He knows what He is doing. Michael has not committed any crime of morality or legality. Most of the accusations against him are the conjured up perverted imaginations of those who indulge themselves to the hurt of others. The "regardless of the consequences" part is the test of a man's integrity and faith. Will he follow his instructions, even unto death, (maybe literally, always figuratively) and be faithful or will he compromise in someway so that he can preserve his life? The true test of a man is made manifest in his decision to "go all the way" with God or remain frigidly apart from the Lover of his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaninireland Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I find the regardless of the consequences bit very disturbing. So if god told Michael to sleep with young girls then this would be ok would it ? You ask this from the context of your own humanity. That is somewhat like a child trying to carry his father's toolbox when the father is a steam fitter or truck mechanic. It's literally impossible. God only asks that we let Him be God. Since "God is love", all He does is in and for love's sake. Human minds cannot comprehend this love because all it knows is the self-centered, sentimental variety that only uses another individual for satisfying its own needs. God's instructions are always purposed to benefit all. Although one may not understand why they are being instructed to do a certain thing, performing that instruction will yield it's own understanding, as well as reward, after it is completed. NOT doing the instruction may very well leave the individual not only disappointed but broken and insane. What is "ok" about God's instructions is trusting that He knows what He is doing. Michael has not committed any crime of morality or legality. Most of the accusations against him are the conjured up perverted imaginations of those who indulge themselves to the hurt of others. The "regardless of the consequences" part is the test of a man's integrity and faith. Will he follow his instructions, even unto death, (maybe literally, always figuratively) and be faithful or will he compromise in someway so that he can preserve his life? The true test of a man is made manifest in his decision to "go all the way" with God or remain frigidly apart from the Lover of his soul. Could you please translate this into English and not bible speak thanks and answer the question that I asked in the first place.. What benefit did the people of Jones Town and Waco get from gods love or weren't these 2 real messiahs because their followers certainly believed they were . So what makes Michael so different from the nutters Koresh and Jones because to me they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks to Terry and Beth for answering my questions although I think Terry may have understood what I was asking a little. Beth's response has clarified the issue for me though and I guess the response is what I would have hoped for from an all loving God. Personally, I'm not sure what I believe in and I struggle to believe that Michael is the second coming but at the end of the day, the way I see it, faith and happiness is a personal thing and if you have found inner peace, then despite what anyone may say to you, then that is a good thing. It may be the case that you and many others are being taken advantage of and if so, I would condemn this entirely, but who am I to judge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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