magnkarl Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) Surovkin apprehended according to the Orcs. The plot thickens, Stalinist purge coming up? A purge could push the military over the edge to finish what Wagner started. Russia is also back at bombing HTS in Syria, a Turkey backed group, Erdogan won’t be pleased. Edited June 28, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 28 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Isn't this very specifically limited to things that directly relate to the invasion of Ukraine, though? Escalating that to attacking Russian cities in tit-for-tat attacks would be a gigantic escalation? A gigantic escalation for who, the West or Ukraine? As I see it Ukrainians have very little to lose at this moment in time other than continue to be systematically killed. Potentially for the next several years to the point very little will be left. The whole Eastern part of the Country has been destroyed, the South infrastructure destroyed, families destroyed and we harp on about not escalating by attacking Russia directly. Imagine if the we had the same attitude in 1939. All because we don't want to make the bully angry. Like I said in my original post, It's just something that I think about, not something I necessarily advocate. But if for instance Ukraine came out tomorrow and said we are going to attack Russian Cities directly I'd understand completely. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: A gigantic escalation for who, the West or Ukraine? As I see it Ukrainians have very little to lose at this moment in time other than continue to be systematically killed. Potentially for the next several years to the point very little will be left. The whole Eastern part of the Country has been destroyed, the South infrastructure destroyed, families destroyed and we harp on about not escalating by attacking Russia directly. Imagine if the we had the same attitude in 1939. All because we don't want to make the bully angry. Like I said in my original post, It's just something that I think about, not something I necessarily advocate. But if for instance Ukraine came out tomorrow and said we are going to attack Russian Cities directly I'd understand completely. We do have a right to influence their decisions because it's a quid pro quo for supplying arms and intelligence. I think it's a bit idealistic to think this is purely Ukraine's conflict, as much as they are the ones being devastated by it on a human level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Are people really talking about attacking Russian civilians in order to ‘send a message’? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Are people really talking about attacking Russian civilians in order to ‘send a message’? Not specifically civilians, but it still strikes me as odd that Russia regularly fires dozens of missiles into Ukraine but the whole of Russia is considered out of bounds. Ukraine should commence hitting more locations in Russia as long as Russia are hitting Ukraine with kamikaze drones and cruise missiles. Russia can make it stop at any point. Zelensky should address the people of Russia and tell them that they will not be attacked without response anymore. Any strikes in Russia are a result of the decisions Putin is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Are people really talking about attacking Russian civilians in order to ‘send a message’? I would destroy their infrastructure, starting with electricity generation and distribution. Next to no civilian casualties and a massive amount of disruption. The network is also huge and hard to defend. The Russian people have to feel some pain before they turn against Putin and that's what it needs for this war to end, Putin needs to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, tinker said: I would destroy their infrastructure, starting with electricity generation and distribution. Next to no civilian casualties and a massive amount of disruption. The network is also huge and hard to defend. The Russian people have to feel some pain before they turn against Putin and that's what it needs for this war to end, Putin needs to go. Isn’t that what Russia tried to do over the winter? Things inevitably go wrong though. A missile gets knocked off course by air defence and lands in a shop or school etc. Nothing ever goes as neatly as planned. I would like to see Ukraine receive more air defence though. At the moment they are having to choose between defending their cities from drone and missile strikes or defending their front line troops from Russian air power. It’s a terrible dilemma and neither target is properly protected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2023 33 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Surovkin apprehended according to the Orcs. The plot thickens, Stalinist purge coming up? A purge could push the military over the edge to finish what Wagner started. Russia is also back at bombing HTS in Syria, a Turkey backed group, Erdogan won’t be pleased. Makes absolutely no sense. Surovkin was the Russian general that sent a message to Prigozhin telling him to stop The Air Force was the only branch of any Russian service that actually attacked the Wagner column. They lost 13 pilots and 7 mostly very valuable rare aircraft But in the other column, it's also not the first time he’s been arrested over a mutiny (failed coup of August 1991) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, bickster said: Makes absolutely no sense. Surovkin was the Russian general that sent a message to Prigozhin telling him to stop The Air Force was the only branch of any Russian service that actually attacked the Wagner column. They lost 13 pilots and 7 mostly very valuable rare aircraft But in the other column, it's also not the first time he’s been arrested over a mutiny (failed coup of August 1991) I does make no sense yet it's being widely reported. Apparently in charge of the Air Force? Putin in Dagestan too drumming up support lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 9 hours ago, bickster said: Makes absolutely no sense. Surovkin was the Russian general that sent a message to Prigozhin telling him to stop The Air Force was the only branch of any Russian service that actually attacked the Wagner column. They lost 13 pilots and 7 mostly very valuable rare aircraft But in the other column, it's also not the first time he’s been arrested over a mutiny (failed coup of August 1991) Close mates with Prighozhin though, Prighozhin never rants about Surovkin but rather Gerasimov and Shoigu. Either way, it's good for Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Ukraine seem to be gaining momentum, especially around Bakhmut where Klischiivka will soon be surrounded and cut off. It could be poetic justice if Bakhmut is the first bigger 'city' Ukraine liberates in the counter offensive. It'd likely make Wagner even more angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2023 New Russian erm.... cope cages... sorry anti-drone cages, but now you've got to turn the tank around if you want to shoot backwards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, bickster said: New Russian erm.... cope cages... sorry anti-srone cages, but now you've got to turn the tank around if you want to shoot backwards Looks it was designed by the same person who did the Titan submersible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2023 I'm going for Putin body double on that one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Quote Satellite images appear to show activity at a disused military base in Belarus, amid speculation about Wagner forces relocating to the country. An image from 27 June obtained by BBC Verify, and first reported by Radio Free Europe, shows what could be tents or similar structures appearing at the base. An earlier image taken on 19 June shows the fields within the military compound largely empty. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66052061 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 ATACMS finally being approved it would seem. Dont know why they didnt just greenlight it when we gave then Storm Shadow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) Wagner are still operating and recruiting. Business as usual. Quote The Wagner Group is still recruiting fighters across Russia, days after staging a mutiny that led Vladimir Putin to raise fears of civil war. Using a Russian phone number, we called more than a dozen recruitment centres saying, if asked, that we were inquiring on behalf of a brother. All those who replied confirmed that it was business as usual. From Kaliningrad in the west to Krasnodar in the south, no-one believed the group was being disbanded. In the Arctic city of Murmansk, a woman at the Viking sports club confirmed that she was still signing up fighters for Ukraine. "That's where we are recruiting for, yes. If someone wants to go, they just have to call me and we'll set a day." link Edited June 29, 2023 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted June 29, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2023 26 minutes ago, Genie said: Wagner are still operating and recruiting. Business as usual. link They can't just stop recruiting. They have "businesses" across Syria and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, trekka said: They can't just stop recruiting. They have "businesses" across Syria and elsewhere. They were supposedly being absorbed into the regular Russian army weren’t they? In the story it says that the recruiter told their caller the “positions” were for placement in Ukraine. Edited June 29, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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