Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

25 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I enjoyed the professor's interview in this piece.

I watched this also,  I wonder what the true state is ?

[AVFC_Hitz]

31 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

I watched this also,  I wonder what the true state is ?

Hot air.

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

That really is a stretch. Zelensky said he'll meet Xi. He'll tell him the same as he's been saying for the last year, that the war ends when Russia removes itself from Ukraine. Right now, there's no way he can say anything else

To not meet Xi, would really be a slap in the face for the Chinese and if as the US currently says that the Chinese are considering sending drones and ammunition to Russia, anything he can do to stop that is good.

I'd say they've only welcomed it in the way that it opens a door to speak to someone face to face and put your point across, nothing more.

But they recognise China is the only country that can exert influence over Russia - yes just a start but it’s this conversation they will need over all others in the end. Unless China make it impossible, China will be a party to any resolution. 

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, Jareth said:

But they recognise China is the only country that can exert influence over Russia - yes just a start but it’s this conversation they will need over all others in the end. Unless China make it impossible, China will be a party to any resolution. 

Not if Russia is utterly humiliated and pushed out of Ukraine.

[Jareth]

Just a little question - but can anyone remind me what Israel are doing about the conflict? Like China - have they chosen a side yet? I mean there's a jewish president of Ukraine, holocaust surviors in their 90's have been murdered by Russia, Russia have also bad mouthed the holocaust in the process of war - but can anyone point to Israel providing weapons or doing anything at all to help? 

[chrisp65]

14 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Just a little question - but can anyone remind me what Israel are doing about the conflict? Like China - have they chosen a side yet? I mean there's a jewish president of Ukraine, holocaust surviors in their 90's have been murdered by Russia, Russia have also bad mouthed the holocaust in the process of war - but can anyone point to Israel providing weapons or doing anything at all to help? 

Israel takes a very dim view of countries that take land from others and undertake ethnic cleansing.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

11 hours ago, Jareth said:

Just a little question - but can anyone remind me what Israel are doing about the conflict? Like China - have they chosen a side yet? I mean there's a jewish president of Ukraine, holocaust surviors in their 90's have been murdered by Russia, Russia have also bad mouthed the holocaust in the process of war - but can anyone point to Israel providing weapons or doing anything at all to help? 

Israel are very much with the West but are doing it in a very clever way.  Israel is supplying “non-lethal” equipment to Ukraine.  They are also assisting Ukraine’s medical services by treating civilians in Israel. 

Weapons are making their way to the battle but in a deniable manner.  For instance…….

Israel wants to know how their weapons would cope with attacks by Iranian suicide drones. These are being supplied to Russia in large numbers.  Israel asked the Polish Army to test their systems for them and shipped off a number of systems for evaluation. Poland decided to sub contract that work out. You’ll never guess who Poland chose to evaluate the systems on their behalf?

The recent bombing of Iranian weapon factories could also be seen as “ inadvertently” assisting Ukraine. 

[magnkarl]

12 hours ago, Jareth said:

Just a little question - but can anyone remind me what Israel are doing about the conflict? Like China - have they chosen a side yet? I mean there's a jewish president of Ukraine, holocaust surviors in their 90's have been murdered by Russia, Russia have also bad mouthed the holocaust in the process of war - but can anyone point to Israel providing weapons or doing anything at all to help? 

Israel seems to have an issue with a lot of its citizens being both Russian and Israeli. They seem to not want to commit properly, but there are several ex-IDF veterans fighting for Ukraine, reportedly around 500. Do bear in mind that about half of the Israeli population aren't nutjobs that voted for Netanyahu and his ilk.

1 million Russian Jews fled to Israel when the Soviet Union broke apart, and the kids of these immigrants often suffer from what Russian kids in Germany do - they seem to have a love for Putin that their parents don't have. It's weird considering that Putin is staunchly anti-Semitic himself.

Edited February 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

2 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Israel are very much with the West but are doing it in a very clever way.  Israel is supplying “non-lethal” equipment to Ukraine.  They are also assisting Ukraine’s medical services by treating civilians in Israel. 

Weapons are making their way to the battle but in a deniable manner.  For instance…….

Israel wants to know how their weapons would cope with attacks by Iranian suicide drones. These are being supplied to Russia in large numbers.  Israel asked the Polish Army to test their systems for them and shipped off a number of systems for evaluation. Poland decided to sub contract that work out. You’ll never guess who Poland chose to evaluate the systems on their behalf?

The recent bombing of Iranian weapon factories could also be seen as “ inadvertently” assisting Ukraine. 

Meanwhile other countries send tanks. Israel are a nuclear power - a specificly powerful country for that reason, yet they ain't stepping up. They are in fact in the same bracket as China. Zelensky has been very public with his frustration. Time to choose a side and I hope they fall in behind Ukraine, whole heartedly. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

33 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Meanwhile other countries send tanks. Israel are a nuclear power - a specificly powerful country for that reason, yet they ain't stepping up. They are in fact in the same bracket as China. Zelensky has been very public with his frustration. Time to choose a side and I hope they fall in behind Ukraine, whole heartedly.  

Israel is surrounded by enemies.  Their priority is to defend their perceived homeland.  But this includes offensive operations against their neighbours. 
Israel’s Armed Forced are vastly superior to Iran’s.   But Israel’s biggest advantage is total air supremacy over Iran.  Not superiority but supremacy.  Iran still uses the F14 as a frontline fighter.  They are jets from the 1970 and the US hasn’t supplied any spares or maintenance for 40 years. 

After the Ukraine war is over, Russia could give weapons to Israel’s enemies. They could sell fighters to Iran and remove Israel’s air supremacy.  They could also flood the area with more basic weapons that would assist terrorist groups/freedom fighters. 

Israel has nothing to gain by directly opposing Russia.  I would rather they didn’t.  The enemy of my enemy is often thought of as a friend.  Israel has plenty of enemies who we don’t want as Russia’s friends. 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats
Speeling mishsteaks

[Panto_Villan]

40 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Israel is surrounded by enemies.  Their priority is to defend their perceived homeland.  But this includes offensive operations against their neighbours. 
Israel’s Armed Forced are vastly superior to Iran’s.   But Israel’s biggest advantage is total air supremacy over Iran.  Not superiority but supremacy.  Iran still uses the F14 as a frontline fighter.  They are jets from the 1970 and the US hasn’t supplied any spares or maintenance for 40 years. 

After the Ukraine war is over, Russia could give weapons to Israel’s enemies. They could sell fighters to Iran and remove Israel’s air supremacy.  They could also flood the area with more basic weapons that would assist terrorist groups/freedom fighters. 

Israel has nothing to gain by directly opposing Russia.  I would rather they didn’t.  The enemy of my enemy is often thought of as a friend.  Israel has plenty of enemies who we don’t want as Russia’s friends. 

 

Russia is giving lots of money to Iran at the moment, and likely already collaborating on their missile and nuclear programs. I’m not sure if it’s official or not but there’s certainly plenty of talk of Iran getting Russian fighter jets etc in the future too.

Israel is being rather self serving with regards to Ukraine and it appears to have backfired quite badly. Russia has picked their side in the Middle East and it’s Iran rather than Israel.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Panto_Villan

[Jareth]

43 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Israel is surrounded by enemies.  Their priority is to defend their perceived homeland.  But this includes offensive operations against their neighbours. 
Israel’s Armed Forced are vastly superior to Iran’s.   But Israel’s biggest advantage is total air supremacy over Iran.  Not superiority but supremacy.  Iran still uses the F14 as a frontline fighter.  They are jets from the 1970 and the US hasn’t supplied any spares or maintenance for 40 years. 

After the Ukraine war is over, Russia could give weapons to Israel’s enemies. They could sell fighters to Iran and remove Israel’s air supremacy.  They could also flood the area with more basic weapons that would assist terrorist groups/freedom fighters. 

Israel has nothing to gain by directly opposing Russia.  I would rather they didn’t.  The enemy of my enemy is often thought of as a friend.  Israel has plenty of enemies who we don’t want as Russia’s friends. 

 

Iran is giving Russia weapons to murder Ukrainians. How on earth is this in Israel's interests?

[chrisp65]

If Israel needs to be careful about upsetting Russia, I guess Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania should also have a rethink.

 

[Panto_Villan]

23 hours ago, AshVilla said:

I enjoyed the professor's interview in this piece.

Took no prisoners and thoroughly called out all the BS that Russia was spinning and the IMF/World Bank is regurgitating.

Economy has now shrunk to the size of Chile's apparently.

I’m a little skeptical of some of the things he’s saying. I hope they’re true, but I’ll wait until I see some other established sources repeating them before I start believing them.

A lot of what he’s saying is uncontroversial though. The ruble isn’t freely traded so its supposed strength is totally meaningless. Same with the stock market, etc.

He’s also right that Russian gas has no market any more, because there’s no pipeline network to pipe it anywhere other than Europe (who aren’t buying it). But gas is only 10% of Russian energy revenue so that hardly matters; the 90% that is oil matters much more. And other researchers  have been saying the oil price cap hasn’t been hugely effective.

His accusations that the IMF / World Bank are just accepting (and thus legitimising) fake economic data put out by the Russian statistics agencies is the most interesting point to me. If that’s really happening I expect to see it reported more widely in the coming weeks. Sounds like it would be quite big news.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Iran is giving Russia weapons to murder Ukrainians. How on earth is this in Israel's interests?

It isn't and I never suggested it was.

Nor is it in Switzerland's interests, Chile's interests or the interests of most countries in the world.  

[Mandy Lifeboats]

38 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

If Israel needs to be careful about upsetting Russia, I guess Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania should also have a rethink.

 

No.  They are in NATO. 

Israel cannot join NATO. 

[chrisp65]

Just now, Mandy Lifeboats said:

No.  They are in NATO. 

Israel cannot join NATO. 

And famously gets no support from the U.S.

 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

7 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

And famously gets no support from the U.S. 

 

I am not sure what your point is.  The countries you mentioned are part of the most powerful military alliance in history.  Israel is nor part of that alliances and cannot possibly be so if it maintains its current policies.  

Israel is no more or less important than any number of countries who aren't supplying Ukraine with arms.  Israel is looking after its own interests.  So is every single country involved or not involved in this war.  

--------- invaded areas of land that they believed were rightfully theirs.  --------- said those areas were necessary to maintain their own security.  ----------- displaced the local population and resettled its own people into that area. 

You can fill those blanks with Israel, Russia, Nazi Germany, France, China,  England Rome, Macedonia,  Mexico, Iraq, Iran, Serbia and many, many more.  

All countries act in their best interests.  

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats
Spelling mishsteaks

[villa89]

6 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

His accusations that the IMF / World Bank are just accepting (and thus legitimising) fake economic data put out by the Russian statistics agencies is the most interesting point to me. 

The question is how do the World Bank prove the data is fake? They aren't going to be allowed do an audit. 

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, villa89 said:

The question is how do the World Bank prove the data is fake? They aren't going to be allowed do an audit. 

I think the suggestion is that they should just not provide statistics for Russia at all if there's reasonable grounds to suggest they are being faked. It's fine to say they just don't really know.

Political decisions regarding the war are being made in Western countries based on this data, so if they are just regurgitating statistics provided by the Russian statistics agency then it's quite a serious issue - people wouldn't believe the numbers if they were provided directly by the Russians, but they do believe statistics when they come from the IMF / World Bank.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Panto_Villan