Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2012 I guess the plus point for us (TV and I that is!) is that the luxury brands (JLR) should be ok, at least for the near future, because in China the luxury image is important. That why we're able to sell cars despite the outrageous import tax, because they're quality cars and better than the cheap rip offs. The rich Chinese guys like that about it. It's when they start developing incredibly luxurious cars for super cheap that we'll be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Didnt they make the point that the cars would not meet European safety and emission standards at those prices? Yeah, they are very shiny, but then so are most cut and shuts. China will bring the prices of new cars down before much longer, but I doubt very much we will be driving around in £4000 Mini Coopers any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2012 @Tamuff - Yes but a major correction would be made. It wouldn't result in the industry collapsing. It would just mean cars started to cost closer to what they cost to make. Similar to what Ryanair did to the airlines who used to charge you £800 to fly from Dublin to London. It all needs a shake-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's kinda what I said, isnt it? It's like how prices fell quite a bit ten years ago in Britain (dunno about Eire, but it probably happened there too) when the internet made it easy to check how much cheaper cars were in mainland Europe and people started importing cars from France and Holland in record numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2012 It is Rev. I hadn't seen your post when I made mine. I had to edit in the '@Tamuff'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I guess the plus point for us (TV and I that is!) is that the luxury brands (JLR) should be ok, at least for the near future, because in China the luxury image is important. That why we're able to sell cars despite the outrageous import tax, because they're quality cars and better than the cheap rip offs. The rich Chinese guys like that about it. It's when they start developing incredibly luxurious cars for super cheap that we'll be in trouble. yep, from what i saw over there there are 2 types of people in china, filthy rich or poverty stricken, the in between is a tiny minority you wont find a 1 series BMW over there, or even most <£30k BMWs over there, its crazy because ive never seen so many of them in one place and pretty much every single one was a top of the range one, aston martin are meant to be making a fortune out there because there is no middle band, if you can afford 1 you can probably afford 10 yet at the same time the chances of them pulling out of gaydon and setting up shop in china is slim, minimum wage is kicking in and its not as cheap as it was even 2/3 years ago, apple for example have had to move factory, i think if any car factory here as going to close shop and set up there it'd have already happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2012 @Tamuff - Yes but a major correction would be made. It wouldn't result in the industry collapsing. It would just mean cars started to cost closer to what they cost to make. Similar to what Ryanair did to the airlines who used to charge you £800 to fly from Dublin to London. It all needs a shake-up. Take it from me, we sell cars pretty close to what they cost to make! Sometimes less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is definitely a very large middle class in China now. They come to the UK on holiday in massive numbers, I see them every single day at work. For some strange reason they all go shopping at the outlet store in Bicester (near Oxford). We carry so many of them on our trains that we have put up Mandarin language signs and install Mandarin language options on the self service ticket machines at Marylebone and Bicester stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2012 Take it from me, we sell cars pretty close to what they cost to make! The base cost of the same car differs hugely from country to country. Take Ireland & Portugal as 2 contrasting examples. To the customer, a car is cheaper in Portugal. But that includes all the taxes etc because Ireland screws you on tax. If you exclude the tax i.e. the cost of the car from the manufacturer to the dealer, then the car is actually cheaper in Ireland. This is because the manufacturer reduces the cost of each unit so that when VAT & VRT are applied to the final cost, the car will still be affordable to the consumer. I know that dealers sell quite close to the wire. A lot of my friends work in the industry. But the cost from the factory to the dealer? I'm not so sure. We'll find out soon enough I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Stevo is right, there is no huge margin on European cars. Chinese cars are not ready for Europe yet but soon they will be. JLR, BMW, Merc etc I expect will be ok in general. It is people like Renault, Nissan, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Kia, and even Ford etc who should really be worrying because if you can by a new Chinese family saloon for £8000 versus say £20,000 for a new laguna or Mondeo its a fair old saving and many would sacrifice the 'badge' for the cash on the hip. @ BOF, I just can't see the room for a 'major correction' there is no comparison between the 2 industry's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Take it from me, we sell cars pretty close to what they cost to make! The base cost of the same car differs hugely from country to country. Take Ireland & Portugal as 2 contrasting examples. To the customer, a car is cheaper in Portugal. But that includes all the taxes etc because Ireland screws you on tax. If you exclude the tax i.e. the cost of the car from the manufacturer to the dealer, then the car is actually cheaper in Ireland. This is because the manufacturer reduces the cost of each unit so that when VAT & VRT are applied to the final cost, the car will still be affordable to the consumer. I know that dealers sell quite close to the wire. A lot of my friends work in the industry. But the cost from the factory to the dealer? I'm not so sure. We'll find out soon enough I'd say. The manufacturing methods will differ hugely from country to country. In the UK (and Germany, Italy, Spain etc.) the lines are heavily automated. In China they will be very labour intensive. The cost per unit will vary hugely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 are 2 types of people in china, filthy rich or poverty stricken I'd echo Revs words above there is a lot of middle class in China the biggest problem facing China now is that people (in the cities mainly) are becoming more and more affluent .. as a result they want their children to go to have a proper education and not work in a factory ... result being China "could" end up with a labour shortage in manufacturing (i say could but with a population like theirs it's probably safe to say they can find some labour kicking about) I first went to China in 2000 .. and I was there in Aug last year .. the difference was staggering in the extremes (even Tiananmen square has huge video advertising hoardings on it :-( ) ... ok some of the places like Xining were still quite poor and on a parr with Sheffield but even there you could see huge building projects under way (it's got a reputation for Tech now , I think it was Microsoft that were moving in , thus creating office jobs rather than manufacturing jobs ) I'm due back in China in March , wouldn't be surprised to see it's moved on even further in those 7 months .. I doubt the rest of the world can keep up tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ok some of the places like Xining were still quite poor and on a parr with Sheffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They come to the UK on holiday in massive numbers. OT - yeah they do and ive seen them in bicester it is a bit strange i always wondered if they had been to some national heritage place near by, we were told that to come here or the US on holiday a chinese citizen has to give the government a deposit of £10,000 to ensure that they will return back OT - like i said im surprised top gear didnt mention the huge growth of BYD motors and how the chinese are heavily backing BYD motors and electric cars as they see out tech-ing the west as the future rather than out pricing us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 With the Bicester thing, I can only assume that Bicester Village spends a fortune on advertising in China. It is the only possible explanation why so many Chinese people travel there from London (and there are hundreds and hundreds every single day if you are unaware) because its a place that I doubt many people in this country have heard of if they are more than, say, 50 miles away from Oxfordshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 you dont think its them making a day out of going to blenheim palace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nope. They get on the train in London, get off at Bicester North, go to the village, spend loads of money, then go straight back to London. I see it every single day, dozens and dozens of Chinese people get off every train arriving from London. They all go back to London with as many giant bags full of designer clothing as they can carry from the other platform. To try and bring this somewhere back on topic, it just highlights to me that the middle class in China is real, its big and at the moment it is very happy to spend its money in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They go there mainly for the Clarks shoes if I recall (its seen as a prestige brand over there , throwback to Hong Kong days !!) even though they are made in China :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 yeah ive just seen something saying they go for clarks shoes! your average chinese shopper spends £1k per visit according to selfridges (they have started accepting chinese debit cards) and they do go to bicester purely for shopping so they put down a £10k desposit, fly to to london, spunk a grand in selfridges, spunk a load more in bicester and then go back... that to me is filthy rich! you cant see those people driving round in an average price car, like someone originally said the car is a statement as much as anything else it does surprise me though that the biggest selling car in china is a £10k buick which i assume they make there at that price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 My mate has told me this before, he lives in Banbury and goes to Bicester now and again, he said its quite bizarre how the Chinese stock up on Clarks shoes oh, and yeah, Top Gear much better this series so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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