Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

@DCJonah

I agree if we sacked him now the appointment would need to be perfect. 

You said people claimed sacking Bruce WOULD lead to promotion when in reality people are saying it COULD, which given our squad is a reasonable opinion to hold. 

You also said people think literally any other manager would do better, which there isn't any posts saying this. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You said people claimed sacking Bruce WOULD lead to promotion when in reality people are saying it COULD, which given our squad is a reasonable opinion to hold. 

You also said people think literally any other manager would do better, which there isn't any posts saying this. 

 

I've seen posts saying Uncle Albert with a backroom staff of Delboy and Rodder would do a better job! 

But I think this has gone on enough now so we'll leave it there. 

BRUCE OUT!!

[DaveAV1]

Just catching up with the last few posts and it’s left me with more questions than answers. Are we now saying that Glen Whelan is a brickie or a chippie? Is he a bad brickie/chippie or has he just read the drawing wrong on his 10th porch? Or is he infact just an over ambitious labourer who should never have been left to build the porch in the first place? What other aspects of the build was he involved with? Could it just be down to the bad design of the porch? Or did the QS buy cheap materials?

Then there are the questions about responsibility. Is Steve Bruce the contracts manager or foreman? Or maybe he’s the architect? Is Tony Xia the client or the owner of the building company? In the blame game it’s all about rolls. Do we bring our own, or is there a canteen on site? Has Brucie already eaten all the rolls along with the pies?

And finally, do they know it’s Christmas time at all?

PS. Is the site shutting over Christmas?

Edited December 20, 2017 by DaveAV1

[AvfcRigo82]

5 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Funny how Xmas lightens the mood...

I've gone from finding @Grasshopper's dogged pursuit of Steven Bruce's balls on a plate unpalatable at best, to perceiving it and him as perhaps the most gifted comedian Villa Talk has ever witnessed. 

And I mean that sincerely.

Your unyielding repetition now has me cracking up as I deck the halls with boughs of holly, mate.

Left it late getting those up haven't you? They should have been up weeks ago!

[AvfcRigo82]

5 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said:

'It' is always irrelevant anyway.

In what sense may I ask?

Edited December 20, 2017 by AvfcRigo82

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

Punishment is a strong word for benching someone!

Take this example: you're a builder and you built 10 houses when the porch of the 10th house collapses.

Are you saying that the guy who built that porch should just be left to carry on because hes an adult and knows he made a mistake? Cos that would be a bad idea...

You should work with the guy to figure out what went wrong and maybe buddy with him to help him improve.

Say then youve built another 10 houses and now the porch of hiuse 20 falls down.  The guy is still an adult and still knows he done wrong but you didnt punish him by taking him off of building porches so youre at the very least partially responsible as you allowed him to keep building.  In your approach nothing gets said and he goes on to build more porches.  For me he has now shown he is not safe to be building porches so i need to pull him and get someone to fill in.  He can watch his replacement build porches to help him learn how to do it better. 

From here i would gradually increase the amount of work i allow him to do on builds until he regains my (and his own) confidence.

This is how management should work. Fail once fine, lets review what happened, understand why and work on putting something in place to prevent a future ocurrance.  Fail again, then i need you to take a step back to gain some perspective and do more work on improving your focus.  I will gradually increase your level or responsibility assuming you dont continue to fail, until you show you can do it on your own. 

Its not a punishment to have someone take a step back for perspective after multiple mistakes, its a guidance and training task.  If he sees being dropped as a punishment when he has made multiple serious errors then id say he is probably not cut out for the job.

Your analogy doesn't work.

A builder getting something so wrong as for part of a house to collapse could probably be classed as gross negligence. You'd probably be looking at a lawsuit or worse.

It's not even close to a footballer misplacing a backpass. 

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I think you have my friend and taken it a tad out of context a wee bit.

Terry is Bruces buddy we are led to understand, correct?

So on that note then of course he is going to praise him, my point being; what is he praising him for?

It could also be a case of reverse psychology by JT too.  

I now have literally no idea what your point is.

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

So youre contradicting yourself?

As a team we do analyze games and errors but whelan doesnt have to? Why?

Just because its a glaringly obvious error ( and not the 1st time he has made that same error i might add) does not give him a free pass to not review and work on things to prevent it happening again.

A much cleverer man than me once said that the definition of insanity was to repeat the same scenario without changing anything and to expect a different result.

Not having whelan review, address and work on this error is the very apitomy (sp?) of this.

Jesus Christ. I didn't realise this was so complicated.

I'm saying we should analyse games, of course we should. What I'm saying is Glenn Whelan isn't walking into Bodymoor Heath on Monday morning whistling not realising he's made a mistake.

Steve Bruce doesn't have to sit him down in front of a tv and say "See here Glenn, when you passed the ball to the opposition player and he scored? Yeah you're not actually meant to do that"

 

Your Einstein quote doesn't work in this scenario either. it would be relevant if the Whelan mistake was the result of a deliberate tactic or strategy and we were just going to carry on with that strategy. But it's not. It was a **** up. It happens.

It's the same as a striker blazing a penalty over the bar. He doesn't need his manager to sit him down and tell him he made a mistake. He knows it. He's a **** adult.

 

Now IF Glenn Whelan starts doing backpasses to the opposition every week, THEN it becomes an addressable problem. The same as if an employee working for me was making the same mistake every week. Then I'd be agreeing with you.

[AvfcRigo82]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I now have literally no idea what your point is.

You admitted yesterday that you never did from the beginning?

Top marks to you for still giving it a go though.. I admire your consistency.  

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

You admitted yesterday that you never did from the beginning?

Indeed I did. I inferred from your OP that you thought that because Terry has praised Bruce, it means Bruce is two bad results away from the sack.

IF (emphasis on the if) that is what you meant, then it is complete and utter nonsense (imo of course). Players, including Terry, have been praising Steve Bruce since the day he arrived. It has absolutely no correlation to how close he is to the sack, which you've admitted yourself because players will always praise Bruce (you said "of course he is going to praise him"). It's like saying "Oh, the crowd is cheering when we score. That usually means the manager is two bad results from the sack". The two things are totally unrelated.

 

Since then I THINK you've tried to explain that that wasn't your original point. But I'm struggling to understand what it is you're trying to tell me your original point was.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Stevo985

[Vive_La_Villa]

Was Terry asked a question or did he just randomly start praising Bruce? 

[Stevo985]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Was Terry asked a question or did he just randomly start praising Bruce? 

He was a pundit on Monday Night Football, and I believe that's what was being referred to. he was asked about Villa and bruce and he praised his manager. As you'd expect the vast majority of players to do.

Sterling praised Pep Guardiola at the weekend. Pep better watch his back.

[Lerner's Driver]

4 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

I‘m surprised Bruce isn‘t doing it for you

Nah, it's you tickling my humerus, G-man. You are unquestionably the Villa Talk man of the year. Happy to stand up and say what you believe, even if it means being unpopular in order to bring the change we all need. And you do it with style and wit too. 

[Lerner's Driver]

37 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Left it late getting those up haven't you? They should have been up weeks ago!

I know. Me out!

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Indeed I did. I inferred from your OP that you thought that because Terry has praised Bruce, it means Bruce is two bad results away from the sack.

IF (emphasis on the if) that is what you meant, then it is complete and utter nonsense (imo of course). Players, including Terry, have been praising Steve Bruce since the day he arrived. It has absolutely no correlation to how close he is to the sack, which you've admitted yourself because players will always praise Bruce (you said "of course he is going to praise him"). It's like saying "Oh, the crowd has started cheering when we score. That usually means the manager is two bad results from the sack". The two things are totally unrelated.

 

Since then I THINK you've tried to explain that that wasn't your original point. But I'm struggling to understand what it is you're trying to tell me your original point was.

Out of context perhaps?

Let's take Terry out of this for a second and ask you a seperate question. IF Bruce loses the next two games do you think he will still be in a job?

If you ask me.. Coco the clown could come and praise Bruce, but if he lost the next 2 games I don't think it would matter who praised him.

I just fins it bizarre why there is praise coming for a manager who is under achieving!

If this has not gave you a different insight into what my OP meant then we will leave it there.

 

[Taxahunter]

15 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Out of interest, who out there thinks if we stick with Bruce there is zero chance of promotion but we sack him now there is good chance of promotion. Any takers ?

 

 

 

Me, I have lost every single bit of confidence I had in Steve Bruce. I dont think he can take us up.

[AvfcRigo82]

10 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

I know. Me out!

Do you have anything of any relevance to comment regarding Steve Bruce's demise?

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

Me, I have lost every single bit of confidence I had in Steve Bruce. I dont think he can take us up.

Do you by any chance think literally any manager could do a better job and sacking him would lead to promotion?

I think the club could have big decision to make in a few weeks if results don't improve again.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Out of context perhaps?

Let's take Terry out of this for a second and ask you a seperate question. IF Bruce loses the next two games do you think he will still be in a job?

If you ask me.. Coco the clown could come and praise Bruce, but if he lost the next 2 games I don't think it would matter who praised him.

I just fins it bizarre why there is praise coming for a manager who is under achieving!

If this has not gave you a different insight into what my OP meant then we will leave it there.

 

But Rigo. You yourself have admitted that players, including Terry, will ALWAYS praise the manager. Would you expect Terry to slag Bruce off when asked about his manager?

So if that is the case, that Terry will always praise bruce, how can you possibly say that the fact that he is praising Bruce now all of a sudden means that he's 2 games from the sack?

That makes absolutely zero sense. Something that has been happening since Bruce got here, suddenly means Bruce is about to get sacked. There is no correlation.

 

Whether Bruce is sacked in 2 games or not, has absolutely no relevance. The only thing that would prove is that you were right in predicting he was two bad results from the sack. It doesn't prove that Terry praising his manager was evidence of that.

[Taxahunter]

22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Do you by any chance think literally any manager could do a better job and sacking him would lead to promotion?

I think the club could have big decision to make in a few weeks if results don't improve again.

Of course promotion has a big part to play, but its just as much the dire football he sets us up to play. I think there is a lot of other managers out there, who probably at this point in the season and where we are, wouldnt achieve promotion, but would play a type of football, that would set us up to go after the win and 3 points, instead of playing not to loose. We deserve more, we are Aston Villa and supporters of the best club in the world.

And I think, we are risking to much, if we don't take the chance of sacking Steve Bruce as I said, my confidence in him is zero, but my confidence in other managers would be higher, so our chance of promotion would in my opinion be higher.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Taxahunter