Steve Bruce

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

Anyone here know if Bruce is a Batman fan? (He has the name for it.)

Or is "batten down the hatches" a commonly used football term in England? He's used it on two different occasions in the span of a few days now.

Its a fairly common term.

[sne]

Just now, TRO said:

Its a fairly common term.

In football?

Honestly never heard it used before regarding football.

[BigAl]

41 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Yeah but we bought him with the intention of him being a good player and paid a lot of money for him, with that in mind there was a good chance he'd be off to the ANC. It wasn't really bad luck. However since we knew he had been picked, I think we should have tried to keep Gestede until later in the window. Perhaps that just wasn't possible.

Ya maybe luck is the wrong word but losing our top scorer and best player for a month to international duty was a disaster .

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not taking the fault away from bruce. He's the manager so it's his fault.

I'm just distinguishing between it being his fault, and him specifically asking them to do it. I don't believe it's the latter.

That's exactly my point Stevo

Edited February 16, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, sne said:

In football?

Honestly never heard it used before regarding football.

Not specifically football, but has been used before.....it just means tightening up or protecting yourself from onslaught.

[sne]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not specifically football, but has been used before.....it just means tightening up or protecting yourself from onslaught.

Yeah I know what it means, learned it from The Dark Knight Rises 

Just thought it was odd that Bruce has made it his catchphrase.

Not that I miss "we go again"

[TRO]

7 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Just 2 quick comments taken from the article in The Guardian I referenced just above.

All to close to home at the moment and a major reason why I have no faith that Bruce will come good, he might win enough games to avoid relegation but what we are seeing now is what has been seen before from him and will be seen again when he moves somewhere else. He is not a good manager.

Have you any quips of the reasons Martin O,Neill, Pete Reid, Roy Keane and David Moyes has made a pigs ear of it too?

[terrytini]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well, he had 41% win ratio when he came in and yes the results were unconvincing, nut I would take them all day long now.

Terry, you ask for my opinion and I give it , if you did agree or think that that reasons given hold no water, fine....I do.

Alan McInally has now come out now and said what a massive repair job it is and Steve is the right man to fix it.....but that does'nt matter, because you have your mind made up.

If you think, what managers have done in the past is immaterial, I'm not sure what to say to at, other than piffle......most get appointed at every club on that important aspect.

You won't be convinced, so just wait for the time when we win or he walks to relieve some pain.....as for Jedinak, it's more of what impact his work has on other players as opposed to what he does himself.....but if you can't see that I can't help.

The fact he has not been on a losing side for us , I guess is immaterial too.

ps Its not my job to try and convince any fan or attempt to change their opinion...folk will make their own minds up.

pps I spoke to a season ticket holder today who has not missed a game this year and he said to me......its the amount of change that's the problem....I said do you think he will be sacked.....he retorted, if he is I'm finished with the club, because it's not his fault.

mixed opinions as you can see.

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say my mind is made up ?

Our results are not a question of my mind, our poor performances are not either ( and even you aren't saying the performances are any good).

I haven't called for him to be sacked, I have continually called for him to adopt a different approach.

In that regard yes my mind is made up, I think his approach has cost us promotion and if it remains unchanged, relegation.

My mind - or the evidence of my own eyes- tells me we sit back, we don't press, we don't pass and move. So yes, my mind is clear on that. My mind saw Hutton Elphick and Taylor preferred to his OWN substitutions of Green, Adomah and Bacuna against Ipswich ...what does your mind tell you about which three are the more positive selection ?

So in my view he needs to change his approach before it gets him the sack.

I certainly don't think he should be kept on if the last two months is repeated for the next two.

And his "41%win" rate ?  - just gave another look WHO thisevtesults ( at home) were against, and just look at how they were achieved. In my view they come nowhere constituting anywhere near evidence that he was doing anything special even then.

As I see it you are the one who has made their mind up, that he must stay because in the past he had done well, and that his problem is a whole squad full of poor players.

I am not questioning he HAS BEEN successful, so have many others. I am not saying he can't be successful here, or elsewhere in the future.

I am just recognising that sometimes Managers work and sometimes they don't no matter how good they are, and on Bruces case there is an absolute pile of evidence, backed up by appalling results, that what he is doing isn't working.

It may work against Newcastle, it may work against a Derby etc, but pne offs is all it will be.

With these players, in this Club, at this time, his approach is self evidently not working.

On that my mind is definitely made up- as to whether we keep him I continue to say ( as we should have with RDM ) give him half a season then look at it. Because of where we are it could end up making sense to keep him until the end of the season even if we remain poor, since as long as we can steer clear of relegation we might as well give him longer, but if in three or four games we are still plummeting keeping him would be dangerous.

And for some guy who would stop going if we sacked him, so what ?

In my view there is nothing more certain to doom us than people being frightened to change a failing Manager.

So for me he has a bit more time but yes I would gladly go through a hundred Managers if they perform like the last few have and like he looks like he might.

 

[peterms]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not specifically football, but has been used before.....it just means tightening up or protecting yourself from onslaught.

Comes from a ship closing the hatches to prevent water coming below decks during a severe storm.  Basically taking shelter while something far beyond your control does whatever it's going to do, so you can  come out some time later and start repairing the damage to whatever is left of your boat.

As a metaphor for how we should deal with the situation now facing us, it would be beyond worrying if it's meant to describe the club's strategy.  Presumably he's just using the phrase without meaning we should take too much from it.  I hope.

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He's a legend at the shit. Undeniable. 

A reputation that increases with every game we play. 

[DaveAV1]

20 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Ya maybe luck is the wrong word but losing our top scorer and best player for a month to international duty was a disaster .

I agree with you there Al. 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say my mind is made up ?

Our results are not a question of my mind, our poor performances are not either ( and even you aren't saying the performances are any good).

I haven't called for him to be sacked, I have continually called for him to adopt a different approach.

In that regard yes my mind is made up, I think his approach has cost us promotion and if it remains unchanged, relegation.

My mind - or the evidence of my own eyes- tells me we sit back, we don't press, we don't pass and move. So yes, my mind is clear on that. My mind saw Hutton Elphick and Taylor preferred to his OWN substitutions of Green, Adomah and Bacuna against Ipswich ...what does your mind tell you about which three are the more positive selection ?

So in my view he needs to change his approach before it gets him the sack.

I certainly don't think he should be kept on if the last two months is repeated for the next two.

And his "41%win" rate ?  - just gave another look WHO thisevtesults ( at home) were against, and just look at how they were achieved. In my view they come nowhere constituting anywhere near evidence that he was doing anything special even then.

As I see it you are the one who has made their mind up, that he must stay because in the past he had done well, and that his problem is a whole squad full of poor players.

I am not questioning he HAS BEEN successful, so have many others. I am not saying he can't be successful here, or elsewhere in the future.

I am just recognising that sometimes Managers work and sometimes they don't no matter how good they are, and on Bruces case there is an absolute pile of evidence, backed up by appalling results, that what he is doing isn't working.

It may work against Newcastle, it may work against a Derby etc, but pne offs is all it will be.

With these players, in this Club, at this time, his approach is self evidently not working.

On that my mind is definitely made up- as to whether we keep him I continue to say ( as we should have with RDM ) give him half a season then look at it. Because of where we are it could end up making sense to keep him until the end of the season even if we remain poor, since as long as we can steer clear of relegation we might as well give him longer, but if in three or four games we are still plummeting keeping him would be dangerous.

And for some guy who would stop going if we sacked him, so what ?

In my view there is nothing more certain to doom us than people being frightened to change a failing Manager.

So for me he has a bit more time but yes I would gladly go through a hundred Managers if they perform like the last few have and like he looks like he might.

 

I was giving you an alternative view of another seasoned fan, but if you want dismiss that as ,"so what"

lets just agree to disagee.

If you think I am happy with this football....particularly the results....you are wrong.

but if you think I am going blame him unconditionally after 4 months for 6 years of demise....you are wrong, because I am not.

He had a good start on results .....the disruption has caused a major wobble....He needs to fix it.He knows that.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, peterms said:

Comes from a ship closing the hatches to prevent water coming below decks during a severe storm.  Basically taking shelter while something far beyond your control does whatever it's going to do, so you can  come out some time later and start repairing the damage to whatever is left of your boat.

As a metaphor for how we should deal with the situation now facing us, it would be beyond worrying if it's meant to describe the club's strategy.  Presumably he's just using the phrase without meaning we should take too much from it.  I hope.

Its the official description yes....but it is used colloquially for many instances

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say my mind is made up ?

Our results are not a question of my mind, our poor performances are not either ( and even you aren't saying the performances are any good).

I haven't called for him to be sacked, I have continually called for him to adopt a different approach.

In that regard yes my mind is made up, I think his approach has cost us promotion and if it remains unchanged, relegation.

My mind - or the evidence of my own eyes- tells me we sit back, we don't press, we don't pass and move. So yes, my mind is clear on that. My mind saw Hutton Elphick and Taylor preferred to his OWN substitutions of Green, Adomah and Bacuna against Ipswich ...what does your mind tell you about which three are the more positive selection ?

So in my view he needs to change his approach before it gets him the sack.

I certainly don't think he should be kept on if the last two months is repeated for the next two.

And his "41%win" rate ?  - just gave another look WHO thisevtesults ( at home) were against, and just look at how they were achieved. In my view they come nowhere constituting anywhere near evidence that he was doing anything special even then.

As I see it you are the one who has made their mind up, that he must stay because in the past he had done well, and that his problem is a whole squad full of poor players.

I am not questioning he HAS BEEN successful, so have many others. I am not saying he can't be successful here, or elsewhere in the future.

I am just recognising that sometimes Managers work and sometimes they don't no matter how good they are, and on Bruces case there is an absolute pile of evidence, backed up by appalling results, that what he is doing isn't working.

It may work against Newcastle, it may work against a Derby etc, but pne offs is all it will be.

With these players, in this Club, at this time, his approach is self evidently not working.

On that my mind is definitely made up- as to whether we keep him I continue to say ( as we should have with RDM ) give him half a season then look at it. Because of where we are it could end up making sense to keep him until the end of the season even if we remain poor, since as long as we can steer clear of relegation we might as well give him longer, but if in three or four games we are still plummeting keeping him would be dangerous.

And for some guy who would stop going if we sacked him, so what ?

In my view there is nothing more certain to doom us than people being frightened to change a failing Manager.

So for me he has a bit more time but yes I would gladly go through a hundred Managers if they perform like the last few have and like he looks like he might.

 

Terry, I am just interested, in what you write in condemnation of Steve Bruce.what exactly are you giving him time for.

If you have no belief, he can turn this around,why not have him gone now?

[darrenm]

On 15/02/2017 at 13:57, BOF said:

It's not just a shots=good performance line though.  By all accounts the movement last night was good too.  We were playing well. 

Not by my account

[peterms]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Its the official description yes....but it is used colloquially for many instances

Yes, agreed.  But it always has the suggestion of being against the ropes, trying to last out something which is beyond your control, don't you think?

I'm not concerned about loose wording in on-the-spot comments, so much as the possibility that this really does reflect the mindset.  As others have remarked, the style of play looks more like that than we are comfortable with.  If there's a siege mentality more broadly, that won't be helpful.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, peterms said:

Yes, agreed.  But it always has the suggestion of being against the ropes, trying to last out something which is beyond your control, don't you think?

I'm not concerned about loose wording in on-the-spot comments, so much as the possibility that this really does reflect the mindset.  As others have remarked, the style of play looks more like that than we are comfortable with.  If there's a siege mentality more broadly, that won't be helpful.

With respect, I think we can all read anything in to anything.

I can't speak for Steve Bruce.....but I think he used a throw away comment to describe going back to basics and stop conceding silly goals.

He speaks to loads of press as do all managers .....let's not get too pedantic.

[peterms]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

With respect, I think we can all read anything in to anything.

I can't speak for Steve Bruce.....but I think he used a throw away comment to describe going back to basics and stop conceding silly goals.

He speaks to loads of press as do all managers .....let's not get too pedantic.

Well yes, I tried to say I wasn't trying to take him too literally.  Sorry if that didn't come across clearly.

But the idea of not giving away silly goals, or any goals for that matter, is not exactly an insight on his part, or a new development on the training ground.

The wider approach to play that people have described is pretty negative, though apparently with some bright spots in the last match.  I don't know, I live several hundred miles away and only catch games occasionally online. I go on reports by others.

Let's just say that in the current situation, with no team in the division having a worse record over the last 6 games, if the manager's insight is that we should concede fewer goals, then I reserve the right to be unimpressed.

[Tommo_b]

3 hours ago, BigAl said:

We all need a reality check ,we think we are still a big club unfortunately those days are long gone we have been playing like a poor side for 6 seasons now and haven't won a trophy in 20 years .We have been a joke shop 6 managers in 18 months turnover of over 40 players ,no club will have success with that carry on .We need to build a team the only way we can that is stick with a manager for the time it will take to build a proper side and 20 games and 6 months is nowhere near long enough to do that .I know you make your own luck but we haven't had any this year injuries African nations cup etc we haven't been able to put out our best side at any stage and due to us being poor for so long the pressure is getting to players the fans are weighing heavy on them they are afraid to make mistakes they just get rid of the ball as soon as they get it anywhere will do the only way that will change is confidence and that will only happen with the fans behind the players and manager ,I don't think Bruce is the best manager in the world but he as sure as hell know how to promote a team and he will get us there aswell given the chance we will turn the corner he needs time we will get there I'm positive  we have the right man .

The more and more I read comments like this and ones by @TRO it reaffirms my belief that we probably should stick with Bruce at least until next October. 

Part of me wants him gone, but then I do agree that we need to have continuity and a squad that's settled and been together for longer then a few months, then once we have had a settled environment for a year or so, it should get easier and finally things should start to improve. 

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, peterms said:

Well yes, I tried to say I wasn't trying to take him too literally.  Sorry if that didn't come across clearly.

But the idea of not giving away silly goals, or any goals for that matter, is not exactly an insight on his part, or a new development on the training ground.

The wider approach to play that people have described is pretty negative, though apparently with some bright spots in the last match.  I don't know, I live several hundred miles away and only catch games occasionally online. I go on reports by others.

Let's just say that in the current situation, with no team in the division having a worse record over the last 6 games, if the manager's insight is that we should concede fewer goals, then I reserve the right to be unimpressed.

I think it's a given that we are all unimpressed....I've been unimpressed for over 6 years.

There are many opinions, why we are, where we are.

I think knowing the problem and fixing the problem is 2 different things. All managers have to be diplomatic when discussing players.

i have written enough of my opinions in previous posts and no one really knows for certain, nobody's argument is bomb proof.

I am unconvinced the football we are seeing is a direct result of players playing to orders, SB's body language during a game is testimony to that.

while we all want goals, right now I think we have a problem at both ends.

Edited February 16, 2017 by TRO