The Fun Factory Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 17 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: When you look at Villa Park on Google Maps you realise that we actually have space where we need it - behind our worst stand, the North Stand. Of course Witton Lane is tight but I am sure we have options we didn't have in 1993, and in 1993 we did buy the tow of houses that was there. So there is the precedent and potential to do that again. Or perhaps we could biold quite a deep stand over the road itself, but at a lower height, and beginning closer to the pitch and using an over hang on the second tier (like the North Bank at Highbury) I honestly see it as quite lazy to say we have maxed out Villa Park and have to build a new ground when we have such a large site, beside two rail stations, motorway, close to the city and beside a grand Historic House! You aren't going to find a better site without spending an absolute fortune and that's before you so much as pour some concrete. Yes. You would have thought the club would have gone through all of the potential options before they went down the redevelopment route which has now been inexplicably binned off under our new overlord. It was the quickest, cheapest, and simplest project to improve stadium revenues but the powers that be have now thought otherwise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 17 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: So we have three viewpoints 1. Stay as we are because we don't need to expand and it costs too much (many have replied along these lines to me since December) 2. We need a new stadium to compete even if it costs the guts of a billion (a cynic would think they have been running down VIlla Park deliberately to push more into this camp?!) 3 (my firm position) Spend £100m on a new North Stand and see then if we meed to down the line expand on the Witton Lane side. This gets us a lot of the things a new stadium gets us and for a fraction of the cost. There is a 4th option. Do a Spurs. Rebuild on the present site. Move everything towards the Witton End. Would mean we didn't need to fork out for a site and woild retain what is a unique and historic location. It would be less landlocked down that end. My preference remains option 3. It just feels like the logical option for me. You have massively oversimplified the viewpoints there. A lot of people have said that pausing the redevelopment makes sense (to them) at the moment because of the challenges with the FFP rules tightening over the next 2 seasons and that there are other ways that we can raise revenues in the meantime that don't require such a large investment. That isn't the same as your Option 1. Qualifying for the Europa League of the CL especially with the revised format coming in - earns far more additional revenue that adding extra seats. Given the FFP restrictions - I'd rather we maximise the money we can invest in the playing team in the short term rather than tie all the money up in a redevelopment project that either means we can't spend as much on new players as we would like and / or that we have to sell key players in order to fund it. That makes little sense (to me) in the short term. Ultimately, I do think we need to do a thorough assessment of whether VP can be expanded, how much of it needs to be (as a minimum) renovated and review all the options available. But given the FFP issues over the next 2 seasons or so - I'd prioritise the on field investment for now (6 - 8 European matches a season dramatically increases our annual match day income). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 12 minutes ago, allani said: You have massively oversimplified the viewpoints there. A lot of people have said that pausing the redevelopment makes sense (to them) at the moment because of the challenges with the FFP rules tightening over the next 2 seasons and that there are other ways that we can raise revenues in the meantime that don't require such a large investment. That isn't the same as your Option 1. Qualifying for the Europa League of the CL especially with the revised format coming in - earns far more additional revenue that adding extra seats. Given the FFP restrictions - I'd rather we maximise the money we can invest in the playing team in the short term rather than tie all the money up in a redevelopment project that either means we can't spend as much on new players as we would like and / or that we have to sell key players in order to fund it. That makes little sense (to me) in the short term. Apologies, I didn't mean to misrepresent anybody. I still disagree, however, as I feel the Emery era presents a unique opportunity for us and the "pause" (I do not trust Heck one bit) is a real missed opportunity as instead of being at 50k by 2026 we will be lucky to see 50k now by 2030. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 How different is VP to Anfield in it's development? If plop can build new stands, surely we can operate in a similar model? Quick look at the map and it looks like we have similar restrictions around the stadium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: How different is VP to Anfield in it's development? If plop can build new stands, surely we can operate in a similar model? Quick look at the map and it looks like we have similar restrictions around the stadium. They did some dirty stuff. Predicable from a club like that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said: When you look at Villa Park on Google Maps you realise that we actually have space where we need it - behind our worst stand, the North Stand. Of course Witton Lane is tight but I am sure we have options we didn't have in 1993, and in 1993 we did buy the tow of houses that was there. So there is the precedent and potential to do that again. Or perhaps we could biold quite a deep stand over the road itself, but at a lower height, and beginning closer to the pitch and using an over hang on the second tier (like the North Bank at Highbury) I honestly see it as quite lazy to say we have maxed out Villa Park and have to build a new ground when we have such a large site, beside two rail stations, motorway, close to the city and beside a grand Historic House! You aren't going to find a better site without spending an absolute fortune and that's before you so much as pour some concrete. I'm unsure where I sit on this new/stadium/redevelopment discussion. However, you've made it sound like we are on the perfect site, but the simple fact we are having this discussion tells me it's not that black and white. There are good transport links in theory, but the trains can't handle the capacity at the moment, you can be waiting for ages well after the game has finished to get on a train, there are numerous transport bottlenecks around the ground and between the ground and the motorway. Check out the 'Villa Park Transport' thread on here to see multiple accounts of transport issues we have. It's a big problem though some don't seem to like to admit it, I'd love to take my disabled father to a game, but the logistics of doing so are incredibly difficult without spending a lot of time either in traffic, waiting around to beat the traffic, or making the poor bugger walk 20/30 minutes to get to the ground and the same back when he can barely walk. Transport is an issue now, let alone when we add more capacity. Developing the Doug Ellis is a far from easy project, it sounds simple to buy up a row of houses and build over the road, but it isn't easy to buy all of those houses without running into issues, people who don't want to move (see above post), and then to get the planning permission to build something as massive as a stand right next to the next row of houses. There's a reason so many clubs go to bigger sites where they don't have to deal with these types of headaches. We have space, but it's at both goal ends really, the two roads pen us in. I love Villa Park, but the site in its current guise has issues that need resolving, if redevelopment of this site was so cheap and easy we'd of done it a long time ago, rather than continually kicking the can down the road. It's not easy to do, that's why it hasn't happened already. I'm not saying we should move to a new stadium, but if we are to redevelop Villa Park we have to at least admit there are issues and find some realistic solutions to them and be patient because it's not a straightforward development to undertake. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) @Teale's 'tache I know we aren't on the perfect site. I want to acknowledge that. But we do have literally acres of land behind our smallest stand. And, on the transport issue, there are moves afoot to improve Witton Station - announced the same week we delayed the new development. And the whole point about the new development was that you would stagger the flow of people to and from the ground by offering pre and post match offerings to either get people to the ground earlier and/or hang around for a bit after. And, as I said, we did buy up a row of houses 30 years ago so I am sure, at some level, it has been on the radar ever since then for us do so so again. And to be clear I am sure we would do so in an ethical way compares to the example given from Liverpool I don't see a better alternative jumping out at me. Edited February 7 by Captain_Townsend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 6 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: @Teale's 'tache I know we aren't on the perfect site. I want to acknowledge that. But we do have literally acres of land behind our smallest stand. And, on the transport issue, there are moves afoot to improve Witton Station - announced the same week we delayed the new development. And the whole point about the new development was that you would stagger the flow of people to and from the ground by offering pre and post match offerings to either get people to the ground earlier and/or hang around for a bit after. And, as I said, we did buy up a row of houses 30 years ago so I am sure, at some level, it has been on the radar ever since then for us do so so again. And to be clear I am sure we would do so in an ethical way compares to the example given from Liverpool I don't see a better alternative jumping out at me. I don't disagree with what you are saying necessarily, it's all possible, just not easy and there are never any guarantees. Hopefully, Witton Station changes will make a difference, but that alone won't likely be enough, there needs to be improvements to the service on matchdays to convince more to take the train rather than drive which will help to free up the traffic side of things. More trains, with more carriages. I don't know much about the bus services around the ground, but if we can improve the traffic in the area there'd be scope for more buses/taxis around the ground. Buying a row of houses was easier and a damn site cheaper 30 years ago, rules and laws change. I'd hope we take the most ethical route, though that could add years to starting any development depending on the issues that arise. A new stadium would also have just as many difficulties. Finding the perfect site for a start. I don't think it's black and white, it's not an easy decision either way. The only thing that is clear is that we need to increase revenue if we are to continue to compete, every penny counts, and a new modern stadium would ultimately bring in more revenue, but is it worth the historical/financial cost? Like I say I'm torn, I love Villa Park, but I can see the benefits if the owners decide to go down a different route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 What's Dr Tony up to these days? He was an expert in these kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 @Teale's 'tache that's why I am so disappointed about the North being cancelled. That was a no brained to me and probably woild have been adequate for at least 10 years while we explore options on Witton Lane. It would have been a big step forward on commercial side etc whereas it feels like we have now gone backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pongo Waring Posted February 7 Popular Post Share Posted February 7 In 69 CE, The Colosseum was built as part of an imperial effort to revitalize Rome, built during the reign of the Flavian emperors as a gift to the Roman people. Time for us to revitalize Villa and Birmingham just like the Romans did back in the summer of 69 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I read in the General FFP thread that there is talk of including infrastructure into the FFP calculations, which I find unjustifiable and would make development of a new ground very unlikely. Probably even the current plans would be difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 7 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7 6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I read in the General FFP thread that there is talk of including infrastructure into the FFP calculations, which I find unjustifiable and would make development of a new ground very unlikely. Probably even the current plans would be difficult. Can't see the majority of PL clubs going for that. It would just set in stone the sky 6 who already have the best stadiums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 18 minutes ago, sidcow said: Can't see the majority of PL clubs going for that. It would just set in stone the sky 6 who already have the best stadiums. I've got a feeling it was more of a UEFA thing. The FA version meant teams outside of Europe can spend 85% of income but teams in European competition only 70%. Anyway it's all rumour I guess, I just wish we'd go ahead with the North Stand asap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Villa park has no presence on the big nights. Tonight showed. We won't miss it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 25 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa park has no presence on the big nights. Tonight showed. We won't miss it. I might surprise you, but the seats and walls don't sing. It's the fans. And I doubt new walls can sing, unless we stick Alexa in them or something. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Caravella82 Posted February 7 Popular Post Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa park has no presence on the big nights. Tonight showed. We won't miss it. One person doesn't remember the Uefa cup Quarter final against Athletico Madrid. I've never heard any fans in any stadium make the noise Villa fans did that night. Player performance spark the fans and that didn't happen tonight. Too many individual performances were awful. Villa park isn't to blame for that. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted February 7 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa park has no presence on the big nights. Tonight showed. We won't miss it. Possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever read on here which takes some serious doing. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 48 minutes ago, sidcow said: Possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever read on here which takes some serious doing. Maybe I went abit(a lot) OTT but thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Pongo Waring said: Villa park has no presence on the big nights. Tonight showed. We won't miss it. That is one of the most batshit comments I ever read on VillaTalk. Well done sir. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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