markavfc40 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: I'm only concerned about moving forward. We can't do anything about what has gone on previously The protest is about wanting changes isn't it? Well theres been some pretty big ones in the last couple of weeks. Nothing can be done to change what has gone before and you'll be waiting a pretty long time, if that's what you're hoping for. I agree with everything you say here mate. We can't change the past and I never got involved in these protests to beat the club up about past mistakes as that is futile as like you say they can't be changed. That goes for the whole of the group we are not about that. We can only try to influence the future. The changes to the board are promising and we acknowledge that. However just as previously we failed when Lerner invested but we didn't have the expertise/nous to oversee that spending now we do have the expertise it will require further investment if we are going to move forwards. The two need to go hand in hand. We are therefore asking for assurances around investment. I actually think without it we will struggle to attract a manager of the calibre required to drag us out of the Championship. In addition to that the last we heard around Lerner selling the club was over a year ago from Tom Fox who said he wasn't a motivated seller. I think given what has happened to the club over the last year and the fact the man who stated Lerners feelings is no longer with us then it is fair to push for a statement from the owner regards his intentions to sell and how motivated he is to do so. Further to that given what happened against Tottenham then this protest is also our way of saying we will not be silenced and that we should be allowed to make our feelings known, with in club guidance, which is of even more importance given how much fans are hurting due to the plight of our club. Edited March 30, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Mark-Yourself, Dave, Mike and others involved have my utmost respect. You got up off your backsides and did something about it, whilst most of us chose to moan on the internet. I think that the nucleus of the group that you have put together is strong but I do question antagonising people with banners. We don't know what the summer holds and my feeling is that we should give them the benefit of the doubt until September 2nd. I personally wasn't overly keen on spending in January, firstly because the type of player who would sign was not the standard required (see the striker Newcastle signed). We have a better chance with the right players in the summer. Secondly, why give Garde money after he'd effectively blown our survival chances over the Xmas period? Even at that point, it was less than 50% that he'd be here next season. Look back at the Hollis statement when he first arrived: "other things need to be fixed" before big money is spent again. when asked whether he felt money had been wasted during the summer transfer window, he told Sky Sports News HQ: "I think the results are the best indicator on answering that question." Hollis insists the new regime at Villa are open to signing new players, but says improving the club's infrastructure remains the priority. "The cheque book has not been put away and if there is a player out there or a couple of players out there who we feel will fit in and really help the side in the Premier League or in the Championship, we are looking," "You have got to look at the facts, this club spent £60m last summer". "Just look at the Premier League, look at the clubs that are doing well at the moment. Most of them haven't spent big money" I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but would you disagree with any of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 We still need to hit these words removed hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 3 hours ago, limpid said: Please don't encourage people to do this. It's a specific criminal offence to throw anything towards the pitch. Sorry, I didn't realise anyone took a blind bit of notice of anything I ever said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: Look back at the Hollis statement when he first arrived: "other things need to be fixed" before big money is spent again. when asked whether he felt money had been wasted during the summer transfer window, he told Sky Sports News HQ: "I think the results are the best indicator on answering that question." Hollis insists the new regime at Villa are open to signing new players, but says improving the club's infrastructure remains the priority. "The cheque book has not been put away and if there is a player out there or a couple of players out there who we feel will fit in and really help the side in the Premier League or in the Championship, we are looking," "You have got to look at the facts, this club spent £60m last summer". "Just look at the Premier League, look at the clubs that are doing well at the moment. Most of them haven't spent big money" I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but would you disagree with any of that? I am wary into turning this thread into a wider discussion but I will try to answer this mate. Do I disagree with any of what Hollis said? yes. We spent 50 odd mill over the summer. With that we had to replace our four best players who had left from a squad that had finished 17th. In addition we had to replace a number of other players such as Lowton, Weimann, Given etc. Get that spending right in terms of who we bought in and we may well have stood still and competed to survive. Get it wrong, well we are living that. I agree with Hollis when he says other things at the club needed to be put right before we spent again. In fact I couldn't agree with that statement more as if we had the infrastructure right years ago we wouldn't have wasted so much of the investment that has gone into the club. However once we do get the infrastructure right, and the steps towards that have been very promising, we will again need the investment which is why we are asking for assurances around that. I don't see us as antagonising people with this banners protest. Far from it. We are using it as a combined protest. Firstly to push the club to action the two outstanding requests in our open letter and secondly as a means of saying we will not be silenced and that we should be allowed to make our feelings known, with in club guidance, something that wasn't shown to be allowed to a number of supporters at the Tottenham game. I am not about trying to convince those that don't want to take part to do so. I respect those that choose not to just as much as I do those that have/will choose to join us. All I'd say is that what we are trying to do is try to influence the club for the better and as many supporters that can join us and help us do that then obviously the greater the weight of that influence will be. Edited March 30, 2016 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, pacbuddies said: Sorry, I didn't realise anyone took a blind bit of notice of anything I ever said. Can everyone just ignore the above comment please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I am wary into turning this thread into a wider discussion but I will try to answer this mate. Do I disagree with any of what Hollis said? yes. We spent 50 odd mill over the summer. With that we had to replace our four best players who had left from a squad that had finished 17th. In addition we had to replace a number of other players such as Lowton, Weimann, Given etc. Get that spending right in terms of who we bought in and we may well have stood still and competed to survive. Get it wrong, well we are living that. I agree with Hollis when he says other things at the club needed to be put right before we spent again. In fact I couldn't agree with that statement more as if we had the infrastructure right years ago we wouldn't have wasted so much of the investment that has gone into the club. However once we do get the infrastructure right, and the steps towards that have been very promising, we will again need the investment which is why we are asking for assurances around that. I don't see us as antagonising people with this banners protest. Far from it. We are using it as a combined protest. Firstly to push the club to action the two outstanding requests in our open letter and secondly as a means of saying we will not be silenced and that we should be allowed to make our feelings known, with in club guidance, something that wasn't shown to be allowed to a number of supporters at the Tottenham game. I am not about trying to convince those that don't want to take part to do so. I respect those that choose not to just as much as I do those that have/will choose to join us. All I'd say is that what we are trying to do is try to influence the club for the better and as many people than can join us and help us do that then obviously the greater the weight of that influence will be. My overwhelming feeling is that the timing is wrong for this. You guys have earned the right to carry this on as long as you wish-Its your shout not mine.I just worry that it may fizzle out over this whereas it would be better with the lid kept on until something negative occurs again. I would only say this-You are struggling for support over this. There are 3 reasons for this. Firstly, you lost support when you called off the Spurs OTDO74. Secondly, things are beginning to change within the club and many are now opting to see what (if anything) these changes bring. Finally, waving banners to antagonise jobsworth stewards could be deemed sinking to their petty level. I am not sure what the remaining 2 demands are on the list but would say that everyone has to concede a little for the overall good of the bigger picture. The Good Friday Agreement (although not football related) is an example of this. Also, we don't know if the other 2 demands will be met at some point in the future. Anyway-I've said enough and don't wish to detract or take the thread into a wider discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: My overwhelming feeling is that the timing is wrong for this. You guys have earned the right to carry this on as long as you wish-Its your shout not mine.I just worry that it may fizzle out over this whereas it would be better with the lid kept on until something negative occurs again. I would only say this-You are struggling for support over this. Mate I am not sure we are struggling for support. Much like with the walkout against Everton we will find out on Saturday. We lacked support on here for that when we asked for supporters to help us hand out a few thousand fliers. Based on that we may have only expected tens of people to walk as it was we got thousands. In terms of us waiting for something negative to happen we'd been doing that for years and now it has happened and we have been relegated. We need to push for further positive action now to ensure things don't get worse and push for them to get much better. We will see what happens on Saturday but in terms of its success it won't fail for the want of trying from those involved. With that thought in mind I'd again ask anyone who can help us out on Saturday by distributing some banners to PM us or make it known in this thread. Edited March 30, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Fair points mate You've all certainly earned the right to continue, if that is what you wish to do. I'm personally on the fence at present and want to see what happens this summer before making further judgement. That is not to say that I'm against the protest group, because I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/30/aston-villa-protest-group-blames-randy-lerner-not-remi-garde? Quote An Aston Villa protest group has expressed its sympathy for the departed manager, Rémi Garde, and blamed the club’s owner, Randy Lerner, for the club’s current predicament. The group behind ‘Out The Door On 74’, which encouraged Villa supporters to vote with their feet and leave the last two home matches after 74 minutes - symbolic of the club’s formation in 1874 - in protest at the years of decline under Lerner, thinks the American should now go. Garde, who left Villa on Tuesday night by “mutual consent”, had been left disillusioned by a lack of backing in the January transfer window having failed to land any new signings and the group described the Frenchman as a “sacrificial lamb”. The group said in a statement: “Two wins in 20 is always going to leave a manager open to valid criticism regardless of the circumstances and his sacking has been inevitable for a while, whether now or in the summer. “Yet, why is it that we find our sympathies turning towards a manager who has undoubtedly failed in his remit? “He was hung out to dry by Mr Lerner and his sorry band of fools. The January window slammed shut on 2 February with zero investment provided, not a single player joined a squad that had finally shown some mettle but was still woefully short of both consistent quality and numbers. “Whatever promises had been made to the manager, whatever token efforts were made, he was positioned as the sacrificial lamb and he has been slaughtered for it. The fight visibly drained from him and for Aston Villa our failure to bolster a fatally flawed squad was the final nail in the coffin. “How many more times must we cycle through managers, players and board members before Mr Lerner finds the winning combination? In our view he has had long enough. “The Aston Villa job is a poisoned chalice because of one man’s inability to provide either consistent support, vision or in Rémi Garde’s case, simply be true to his word. Randy Lerner, bow your head once again in shame.” The ‘Out The Door On 74’ campaign is set to continue when Villa resume Premier League action at home to Chelsea on Saturday. Villa, bottom of the table and 12 points from safety, are now looking for their third manager of the season. The former Leicester manage Nigel Pearson and David Moyes, previously of Everton, Manchester United and Real Sociedad, have emerged as early favourites with bookmakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I agree with the protest group I think the players are as much to blame as Lerner though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I think (certainly given paul mcgrath's words) it's becoming increasingly obvious that it is the players, not who aren't good enough, but who have CHOSEN to let this happen and need to be held accountable more than Lerner. Yes we will never be able to shy away from the mistakes Lerner makes. He tries to rectify them with more mistakes. He really isn't cut out for this role........ However he isn't pocketing a shed load of cash each week (a lot at the expense of us) and not trying. Aim all your protests at the players. I've forseen this for quite a while. Since MM was on here in fact, but the extent to which they are a disgrace is becoming increasingly alarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Woodytom said: I think (certainly given paul mcgrath's words) it's becoming increasingly obvious that it is the players, not who aren't good enough, but who have CHOSEN to let this happen and need to be held accountable more than Lerner. Yes we will never be able to shy away from the mistakes Lerner makes. He tries to rectify them with more mistakes. He really isn't cut out for this role........ However he isn't pocketing a shed load of cash each week (a lot at the expense of us) and not trying. Aim all your protests at the players. I've forseen this for quite a while. Since MM was on here in fact, but the extent to which they are a disgrace is becoming increasingly alarming. So make a banner that expresses your disgust at the players, making sure it isn't abusive or racist, Banner Out on 74. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: So make a banner that expresses your disgust at the players, making sure it isn't abusive or racist, Banner Out on 74. Kinda what I was suggesting to everyone who is going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Sorry @Woodytom you were so vehemently opposed to any and all protest ideas you blew my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 42 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Sorry @Woodytom you were so vehemently opposed to any and all protest ideas you blew my mind! No I've always been the same...... If it's aimed at the players then I'm in full support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It's totally absurd to pin all the blame for Villa's woes on the current crop of players. Most of them weren't around during seasons 2010/11 - 2014/5, when Lerner's stop-go (mainly stop) investment, inconsistent policy on managers and consistent appointment of buffoons to run the club led us time and time again to the brink of relegation. The current squad appear to have given up, but then so had their manager, so maybe it's not so surprising. It would be a shame if fan reaction is targeted solely on the players. They're not good enough and they've been badly led and managed but that is a symptom of the club's problems, not the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 21 minutes ago, briny_ear said: It's totally absurd to pin all the blame for Villa's woes on the current crop of players. Most of them weren't around during seasons 2010/11 - 2014/5. This culture has been developing since houllier's reign. The last few months are really not the first time some of us have expressed a concern with the attitude of the players, especially gabby. If you think think it's a case of garde gave up so the players did then wow, imo, you are massively mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 17 minutes ago, Woodytom said: This culture has been developing since houllier's reign. The last few months are really not the first time some of us have expressed a concern with the attitude of the players, especially gabby. If you think think it's a case of garde gave up so the players did then wow, imo, you are massively mistaken. I'd say it was from the MON reign, who let the players run the club. When Houllier tried to change things the players kicked up a fuss and started to act like spoiled teenagers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Thanks to everyone who has offered to help so far, both physically on the day and by printing off the banner themselves and taking a few to the game. But we still need more. Contrary to some reports above, there is plenty of support for this. Again though, we need more to tip it over the edge into something genuinely worthwhile. So PM me or @markavfc40 and lets get you on board. We will be meeting up outside the gates by the McGregor statue (Trinity Road) at 11.30am on Saturday. But please let us know if you're coming so we can get a handle on numbers so we know how many banners to bring! That print out link once again, for those wanting to play a small but vital part - http://astonvillaprotestgroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BOOBanner.pdf Click. Print. Banners Out on 74. Done! Edited March 31, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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