KHV Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just now, Demitri_C said: I dont think its just that, that gabbys not in the team If he was fit and playing well he would still be out the door. He is just not a viable option in the championship either way. I do agree has played shite and not put effort in. He probably knows his time up so couldn't give a toss either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, KHV said: If he was fit and playing well he would still be out the door. He is just not a viable option in the championship either way. I do agree has played shite and not put effort in. He probably knows his time up so couldn't give a toss either way He was dropped before our PL status was lost so I can't see how the championship situation affects this at all. Personally I think that a championship future would make him still being here next season more likely rather than less We'll agree to dsagree I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Richard said: I'd like us to end the season with 30 points. We are going down this year but how we go down affects next year. If we go down with battling spirit , winning some games and fighting as a team it will stand us in good stead next year against teams in that division who will have won 20 plus games and just missed out on promotion or been play off finalists , teams with good spirit and high motivation already and determined to get out of that league. If we go down with less than 20 points and middle teens then I really fear for us next season as well. Yep, the kind of improvement I would also like to see before the seasons out for me to be convinced he's the right man for the championship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Zatman said: I meant 15 onto the 8 we already have YEah, we meant the same thing...so I am expecting minimum of 24 points and a demonstration we are improving and showing character / fight to take into the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 hours ago, VillaCas said: We disagree on this - personally I beleive that the current squad is beyond any meaningful improvement (the kind that would get us out of the relegation places). Player for player they are not quite the worst but they do not come together to make a cohesive whole. They are fundamentally unbalanced - they could be coached I guess to concede a few less but I don't really see how they can be helped to score a few more The fact that we will not have funds to buy better players is a complete red herring - I don't think that we need better players, even bringing in a couple of average players in the right areas would redress the balance and get us playing better. I'm not sure Marc Albrighton is a "better player" than Jack Grealish but at the moment I know which one I would rather have in the side. Is Robert Huth a "better player" than Micah Richards? We need to bring in three or four players who will give more balance and solidity to the side I also don't accept that Garde has made that many mistakes - any new manager would need to go through the same process of trying players and formations. He is not helped by the paucity of resources available. The previous 9 games before Garde produced one point, Garde's first 9 games have produced 4 points - that is improvement of a sort but nothing meaningful. Whilst I had hoped for a bigger turnaround, equally I'm not surprised that Garde could not work a miracle I'm not yet a Garde fan and I won't continue to support him if I don't see signs that he is heading in the right direction but I've got to give the bloke more than 9 games before I join those booing and castigating him. I will wait and see what he is allowed to do in the January window (hopefully improve our attacking options) before I set my expectation of him for the remainder of the season. To finish on a conciliatory note I think your benchmark of 16 more points from 18 games is reasonable and in line with my thinking given a little help during January A lot of points here, I don't know whether you're addressing me specifically or not but you quoted my post so I have to assume so. I think it's a given that we completely disagree on whether this team can be improved between now and the end of the season, that's fine. However, you mention to quantify improvement and raise the subject of improving enough to escape relegation. I think that would take a miracle, and I do not expect this of him. I do expect that he will improve us to the point we'll win a few games and pick up twice as many points in the 2nd half of the season as we have in the 1st. To quantify that into numbers, 24 points. I am including the fact he has an entire January transfer window to add to the squad to improve it. And I expect as a minimum he must improve this season or come the end he won't be the man for me. Other points regarding only giving him 9 games before "castrating him", again I don't know if you're still addressing me but my stand should be perfectly clear because I've said countless times that I expect improvement by the end of the season. And I've made a point to say we might as well just stick with Remi until then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adbo9 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My personal view is that Garde is getting away scott free from criticism............ Yes its early days in realistic terms, but he was bought in to kickstart us and keep us up, he looks like he will fail at this, and regardless of what anyone says, or what proportion of blame needs to go on anyone else linked with our club in recent times, it will be Garde's name above the door who will be the manager that relegated us................. The general concencus, not one which I bought into, was that under Sherwood we had a "good squad being poorly managed" and a new manager "would have us moving up the league"........ But since Garde has come in and results and performances have been worse IMO the general concencus is "weve got a shit squad, no manager could turn this round"....... Im not sure what camp I fall under, but as for a year in the championship, if this lot go down without so much of a whimper I will have ZERO faith in Remi Garde being the man to lead the revolution and have us charging back into the top flight.............. Infact £50 to VT if Garde is Villa manager by Xmas 2016................ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VillaCas Posted January 7, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, Adbo9 said: My personal view is that Garde is getting away scott free from criticism............ Yes its early days in realistic terms, but he was bought in to kickstart us and keep us up, he looks like he will fail at this, and regardless of what anyone says, or what proportion of blame needs to go on anyone else linked with our club in recent times, it will be Garde's name above the door who will be the manager that relegated us................. The general concencus, not one which I bought into, was that under Sherwood we had a "good squad being poorly managed" and a new manager "would have us moving up the league"........ But since Garde has come in and results and performances have been worse IMO the general concencus is "weve got a shit squad, no manager could turn this round"....... Im not sure what camp I fall under, but as for a year in the championship, if this lot go down without so much of a whimper I will have ZERO faith in Remi Garde being the man to lead the revolution and have us charging back into the top flight.............. Infact £50 to VT if Garde is Villa manager by Xmas 2016................ Results are marginally better - Sherwood's last 9 games = 1 point, Garde's first 9 games = 4 points, and performances are subjective but IMO we have looked marginally better overall under Garde But hey, the problem has been six years in the making and Garde hasn't fixed it yet in two whole months so feck him 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Adbo9 said: Infact £50 to VT if Garde is Villa manager by Xmas 2016................ Is there a place on VT where all these pledges are kept track of? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adbo9 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Results are marginally better - Sherwood's last 9 games = 1 point, Garde's first 9 games = 4 points, and performances are subjective but IMO we have looked marginally better overall under Garde But hey, the problem has been six years in the making and Garde hasn't fixed it yet in two whole months so feck him Im not disputing that, I was giving my opinion on Garde and if I think hes the man to take us forward....................... I take your point on points gained, but I also say pre-garde we were 3/4 points from Safety - with him 11 plus goal difference................ that for me is a **** joke......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted January 7, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2016 Quote The general concencus, not one which I bought into, was that under Sherwood we had a "good squad being poorly managed" and a new manager "would have us moving up the league"........ But since Garde has come in and results and performances have been worse IMO the general concencus is "weve got a shit squad, no manager could turn this round"....... I see what you're saying and you are right that this has now become the fans' general assessment but I think it's for good reason. Here's why. Firstly, under Sherwood we were quite obviously tactically clueless. He was changing things not just from week to week but sometimes from half to half. It was clear for all to see that Sherwood didn't know what he was doing. He no longer had the honeymoon of having a new manager boost and was drowning quickly as a day to day man. The final straw for me was his 'Manager on Monday' OS interview where he put it in direct quotes that he was going to keep playing formation bingo until he lucked into a result. The thoughts (or maybe hopes) of most fans at that point was "Imagine if we actually had a football manager in charge" because we clearly didn't. Now, remember that all the while there still remained the possibility that even allowing for Sherwood, this lot were actually just shite. Once Remi comes in, a manager who has successfully managed a big club for more than a honeymoon period and whose fans did not want him to leave when he did, with his own new manager boost still fails to do any better. Now, armed with this new larger body of evidence in front of us regarding the players, it starts to become more and more apparent that even though Sherwood was a total blagger, this collection of players look like you could probably hand them to any manager in the world at this level and they'd struggle to do anything with them. That's why our current malaise doesn't particularly reflect badly on Garde in my view. It reflects badly on the players to some degree, but mostly on those who bought them and on those who devised the whole transfer strategy in the first place. I say strategy because I still believe the manner and volume in which the players were bought has caused more problems than the individuals themselves have. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted January 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Richard said: I'd like us to end the season with 30 points. We are going down this year but how we go down affects next year. If we go down with battling spirit , winning some games and fighting as a team it will stand us in good stead next year against teams in that division who will have won 20 plus games and just missed out on promotion or been play off finalists , teams with good spirit and high motivation already and determined to get out of that league. If we go down with less than 20 points and middle teens then I really fear for us next season as well. Hell yeah! This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted January 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, BOF said: ... Once Remi comes in, a manager who has successfully managed a big club for more than a honeymoon period and whose fans did not want him to leave when he did, with his own new manager boost still fails to do any better. Now, armed with this new larger body of evidence in front of us regarding the players, it starts to become more and more apparent that even though Sherwood was a total blagger, this collection of players look like you could probably hand them to any manager in the world at this level and they'd struggle to do anything with them. That's why our current malaise doesn't particularly reflect badly on Garde in my view. It reflects badly on the players to some degree, but mostly on those who bought them and on those who devised the whole transfer strategy in the first place. I say strategy because I still believe the manner and volume in which the players were bought has caused more problems than the individuals themselves have. So, if you'll forgive the indelicacy of this analogy ... it seems you are talking about a shite sandwich, made with shite bread, formerly encased in a wrapping of shite. Is there a point when the layers of shite will stop? Edited January 7, 2016 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted January 7, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: Is there a point when the layers of shite will stop? Inevitably. The trick is not to throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think Remi is the problem. I think he could (I stress 'could' as he needs more time) be the solution on the pitch. But in our anger as fans it's important to direct our anger at the right areas, as fun as it is to be completely indiscriminate. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 We eventually just became a manager school for Sherwood. Although I'm not sure he actually learned anything. I did originally like him and his attitude, he did get things right at the start. The team WERE losers as he said. I don't think he did himself any favours towards the end though, he burnt his bridges here long before he was sacked. The blame though doesn't lie on Remi's head. It makes zero sense to get rid of him because of the position we're in. People are just frustrated now and baying for blood. We need some stability now to rebuild. The transfer system and hierarchy is here to stay for the time being so we need someone in place to work with that, get to know the players and get us back to where we were 5-6 years ago. We aren't going to magically improve overnight. We need to let Garde work on a new project in us 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Jersey_Villa Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 hours ago, chrissmith921 said: Brian Little had hate from people at the end of his time here. Brian **** Little should never get shit from Villa fans - ever. Same category as Paul McGrath and Franz Carr for me. Untouchable. Maybe not Franz. Little for me just tried to fix something that wasn't broken. 5-3-2 had worked very well for us. Of course signing Collymore was supposed to push us onto that next level and he tried to accommodate Yorke, Milosevic and Collymore in a 4-3-3, which just didn't work out. I'm too young to remember Little as a player, but some of best memories of being a Villa fan are when Little was was the manager. Only had that one league cup to show for it, but we destroyed Leeds that day. DESTROYED!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 21 hours ago, El-Reacho said: Pat Murphy mentioned both Tony Barton and Steve Walsh on R5 Live on Monday night when discussing Villa - saying they were exactly the people the club needs right now. seems like Pat Murphy is not the muppet some think he is.....because on that point he is so spot on. They needed them 10 years ago.....this is now the station the train has arrived at......s*** junction. I know he is not pro Villa, but that does not mean some of his comments are not accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 On 1/6/2016 at 14:15, El-Reacho said: Are you Pat Murphy by any chance?? :-) sorry, I understand your point now.....wasn't privy to the Pat Murphy interview....but he's right on that point. we need to find one similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: Hell yeah! This! Yup, it's so important that we finish this season on a positive note. Now is detox time, spring cleaning in the summer and then go come 16/17 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) On 1/5/2016 at 13:09, piav_k4 said: Over the last few years we've made a loss or a token small profit, therefore we couldn't have spent any more. The problem must be how it's spent, not how much. your last line is the crux of the whole problem......and on whom it is spent. I'm not saying it is right.....But as time as rolled on RL has gradually lost confidence in our ability to buy well.....subsequently has been more resistant to investing....In other words we are generally p****** the money up the wall. some could say thats his fault for employing the wrong people....can't argue......but equally that does not excuse them from not doing the job sufficiently well either. Ps I used to be in Sales when I was working.....If I didn't sell enough, the MD wouldn't get the sack I would......It was my responsibility and that was agreed in my interview.However it was his job to make sure I was the right appointment.....We need to be sure what we are blaming folk for at Villa and for what reason. Edited January 7, 2016 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 When we go down and settle in the Championship ( by the way,I don't think we should give up.. but the team do seem to be devoid on any idea of how to get a win) we need to be sure of who we are. Our Identity should be : We are a championship team trying to get promotion, not a premier league team just been relegated. That former mental approach will give us a chance the latter will see us drop again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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