blandy Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: t's a body that's set up to deal with a problem that hasn't worsened Maybe. It seems from what you've written that you're accepting there is a problem? (I think there definitely is). Whether it's worse or not (I think it is) I guess Labour think it is sufficiently large to require action. I mean I agree that they've been lining the pockets of themselves and their chums, but I ALSO think they've been hugely wasteful (as have previous guvmints). it sems like everything comes in at 3 times the estimated costs and contracts are set to pass the overruns on to the public. HS2...any infrastructure project, Airport runways, Roads, Rail, Defence, Hospital building...school renovations...there is or has been humungous waste as well as stuff that perhaps couldn't be forseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: There's no evidence of mass anger about PPE contracts in the way there clearly was over MPs expenses back in the day That's an interesting point. It shows how much things have become normalised. I mean I agree there's nowhere like the same level of anger, despite it being a far, far, worse thing. Monumentally so in scale and cost. That doesn't mean Labour shouldn't make every effort to highlight what's happened and to try and snap the public out of this acceptance of it. They've not done it very well so far. I also do think that underneath the surface of the public there is knowledge and disdain and disapproval of the PPE stuff and that it will come out in due course. Right now we've had first Brexit and the entire focus on that, then the actual virus and people worried about getting ill and dying, and that's kind of all that's been in people's minds. But ask people what they think of the PPE stuff and so on, and you will get negative approval, for sure. it's just not the main news thing like the expenses was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 I do think there's an underlying anger about contract theft, obviously people are lead by media and it's a story that's largely invisible in the mainstream, but I think people know it's happening and are angry about it - sadly they're loooking for someone to do something about it and not finding anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I do think there's an underlying anger about contract theft, obviously people are lead by media and it's a story that's largely invisible in the mainstream, but I think people know it's happening and are angry about it - sadly they're loooking for someone to do something about it and not finding anyone. What can a Political Party with such a big deficit of votes do realistically? All the Labour Party can do is keep banging on about it. Others like the Good Law Project can take a different route through the legal system but that is being funded by concerned UK subjects (as is the "advertising" by Led by Donkeys) Hopefully one day the Labour Party will wise up and realise it has to change the system to stand a chance of being in power and the only way to do that is by some sort of alliance with other parties around electoral reform, until it manages to come to that conclusion anything it does is pissing in the wind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 "Keep" is doing a lot of work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 There's also another problem with the Cronyism line. Labour aren't averse to it themselves. Which is why they can't keep banging on about it Chippy Tits, Unite the Union and Chippy Tits Jr is only one of the latest examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 None of this expains why, if Labour want to criticise Tory theft, they don't do so in plain English terms that everyone can understand, and instead propose a quango to restrict spending instead. The actual reason IMO is that the Labour right are more than happy for another unaccountable body to be placed between the desires of their members expressed at conference, and their lack of desire to pursue anything they perceive as 'radical' if they take office. 'We think a Green New Deal is a great idea, let's just put it to the Office for Value for Money . . . oh no they said it won't be value for money, sorry about that, our hands are tied'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 40 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: None of this expains why, if Labour want to criticise Tory theft, they don't do so in plain English terms that everyone can understand Because it isn't theft as explained above. No money that the government has paid in the Covid Procurement Scandal has been done so illegally Also we're in the territory of Government Budgets being like Household Budgets if its described as theft (not that this has entered Labour thinking) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 hours ago, bickster said: Because it isn't theft as explained above. No money that the government has paid in the Covid Procurement Scandal has been done so illegally Also we're in the territory of Government Budgets being like Household Budgets if its described as theft (not that this has entered Labour thinking) You're absolutely right, it isn't theft, I don't even think of it that way, and I don't know why I wrote that except I guess caught up in the flow of the posts above. But call it something right, corruption, malappropriation of public funds, whatever else, it isn't important to the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Keine Starmer misses budget due to having covid. I thought this was going to be his time to shine. It also suggest Mogg might have been wrong about them being resistant to the virus in the commons. Edited October 27, 2021 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 27, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Genie said: It also suggest Mogg might have been wrong about them being resistant to the virus in the commons. He wasn't being convivial or fraternal enough, Starmer, clearly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2021 The self-importance of Youtuber Owen Jones knows no bounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 hours ago, bickster said: The self-importance of Youtuber Owen Jones knows no bounds I'm kind of with Jones on this one. His office should have updated his social media with a statement of support, given that the abuse got IIRC three people charged and made the news. It's not the story of the century, no, but he's not wrong, and the reason he imputes - that Starmer and his office dislike and distrust Rayner - is pretty clearly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm kind of with Jones on this one. His office should have updated his social media with a statement of support, given that the abuse got IIRC three people charged and made the news. It's not the story of the century, no, but he's not wrong, and the reason he imputes - that Starmer and his office dislike and distrust Rayner - is pretty clearly correct. Erm, that has nothing to do with my point regarding the self-importance of Owen Jones. Also here's the timeline of the tweeting events Owen Jones first tweet above about Rayner was sent at 6:20 PM Rayner sends her tweet (which Starmers response is Quote retweeting) at 6:21 PM Starmer then quote retweets Rayner's tweet with his solidarity at 6:32PM (a whole 9 minutes later) 5 minutes later Jones Tweets that Starmer has now done it (with the obvious inference that it was only done because he's been hassling the LOTO office BUT THEY HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO HIM HOW DARE THEY NOT!) Those tweets are all about Owen Jones and nothing else. There was very probably some co-ordination between Starmer and Rayner's offices but that isn't relevant to Jones, he just must be responded to and he only chucks in the "briefing" in the second tweet as some sort of justification of his position 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2021 This one is Owen getting it completely wrong again whilst showing he doesn't understand the medium he's chosen to be active on. Not a hint of an apology from him for calling The Sting character here anti-trans activist, nope he's doubling down as it's all about Owen again He'll move on and think he's right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Because that guy has never randomly shit slinged at Owen Jones whilst doing something Transphobic. Also, Owen Jones is right about that tweet, what relevance is there in linking him to someone that tweeted something that seems illegal (I assume it is as presented as there's no reason to doubt it, but it's not like people never lie in their twitter bios for weird reasons), a tweet that had nothing to do with him, just because that person, that doesn't follow him, also replied to one of his tweets? That's something that is totally out of his control and it's a stretch even for guilt by association! It would be like if someone on here liked one of my posts and it turned out they did something illegal, so I got called out for it, what relevance would that have? The only logical conclusion to me is that he's got an axe to grind, as evidenced by him tweeting about Jones two weeks ago without prompting, and it's par for the course for those TERF twitter weirdos that seem to blame Jones for everything. And judging by the guy's other tweets, yes he's a massive TERF which would make calling him an anti-Trans activist fairly accurate (though whether you can call an anonymous twitter account an "activist", I'm not sure). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 white people all look the same to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2021 Just now, HanoiVillan said: white people all look the same to me Is Lisa Nandy white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, bickster said: Is Lisa Nandy white? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2021 28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: No. Then your point is lost on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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