DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp_villa830 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 None of those clubs spend £20mil every window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30620617 Its been a very poor 12 months. It seems to alternate. 2011 decent - we started to finally pick up some results and play better under Houllier and we were mostly solid if unspectacular in the first half of McLeish's season 2012 very poor - dramatically tailed off under McLeish and didn't really get going under Lambert 2013 decent - started to look good under Lambert and didn't do too badly in the first half of last season 2014 very poor - dramatically tailed off in March again and have just about kept ourselves out of the relegation mire this season At least 2015 should be ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I hope it works like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 None of those clubs spend £20mil every window. I meant every season - sorry . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. You forgot the other one of having a good manager. If everyone shared your view top managers wouldn't get top jobs. They'd hire anyone and give them cash to spend. And actually rather than catch other teams it would be nice if we could just improve. But we average the same points per game as his first year. Guess that's nothing to do with him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. You forgot the other one of having a good manager. If everyone shared your view top managers wouldn't get top jobs. They'd hire anyone and give them cash to spend. And actually rather than catch other teams it would be nice if we could just improve. But we average the same points per game as his first year. Guess that's nothing to do with him though. I haven't said anywhere that Lambert is necessarily a good manager. Top managers obviously get top jobs. Averaging the same points per game as his first year is disappointing, but do you honestly expect much difference? We're spending enough money to make us stand still. Surprisingly, we're standing still. Edit: For what it's worth (since you seem to be of the belief that I am absolutely pro-Lambert), I wouldn't be fussed if Lambert was replaced at any point in time. If he was replaced, I'd like it to be for an exciting, up and coming manager (much like Lambert was when we hired him). However, I'm not convinced that any change would necessarily bring better results due to the way we're being run. Hopefully Tom Fox will have some affect on this and hopefully we'll become a more attractive club going forward. Edited December 30, 2014 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Absolute tosh. If all that was needed was money then everyone would finish in a position exactly according to how much money they had spent. You need a good manager that buys good players at the right price and gets the most out of them. Edited December 30, 2014 by pacbuddies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Are we spending money to stand still? I'd say the squad is better than his first year. Far more experience has been brought into the squad also, the lack of which was often used to excuse poor performances early on. IMO we've spent enough and he's had enough time to show some sort of progress and improvement. He's so far failed to do this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Are we spending money to stand still? I'd say the squad is better than his first year. Far more experience has been brought into the squad also, the lack of which was often used to excuse poor performances early on. IMO we've spent enough and he's had enough time to show some sort of progress and improvement. He's so far failed to do this. Agreed r.e: progress/improvement, but you completely misunderstand "standing still" as a concept. Edited December 30, 2014 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 For what it's worth (since you seem to be of the belief that I am absolutely pro-Lambert), I wouldn't be fussed if Lambert was replaced at any point in time. If he was replaced, I'd like it to be for an exciting, up and coming manager (much like Lambert was when we hired him). However, I'm not convinced that any change would necessarily bring better results due to the way we're being run. Hopefully Tom Fox will have some affect on this and hopefully we'll become a more attractive club going forward. Yeah we're on the same page there. I'm not 100% confident it would be different but I do think this squad is better than Lambert has us playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Absolute tosh. If all that was needed was money then everyone would finish in a position exactly according to how much money they had spent. You need a good manager that buys good players at the right price and gets the most out of them. They pretty much do, don't they? You'll obviously have some overachievers and some underachievers but the table is pretty much: more money spent on team = higher league position. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Absolute tosh. If all that was needed was money then everyone would finish in a position exactly according to how much money they had spent. You need a good manager that buys good players at the right price and gets the most out of them. They pretty much do, don't they? You'll obviously have some overachievers and some underachievers but the table is pretty much: more money spent on team = higher league position. I think you will find the competence of each manager has something to do with it. I would feel more confident of Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho finishing higher in the league having spent £50m than I would Alex McLeish or Owen Coyle or Phil Brown spending £100m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Absolute tosh. If all that was needed was money then everyone would finish in a position exactly according to how much money they had spent. You need a good manager that buys good players at the right price and gets the most out of them. They pretty much do, don't they? You'll obviously have some overachievers and some underachievers but the table is pretty much: more money spent on team = higher league position. I think you will find the competence of each manager has something to do with it. I would feel more confident of Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho finishing higher in the league having spent £50m than I would Alex McLeish or Owen Coyle or Phil Brown spending £100m. Depends on the starting nature of the beast to be honest. Obviously there are better managers and worse managers - but then this changes with each job. Mourinho at Madrid compared to Ancelotti at Madrid for example. In reference to the managers you've listed, Jose Mourinho has had success where he's spent a whole load of money; the same with Alex Ferguson. Arsene Wenger has won comparatively little whilst spending comparatively less. Surely this goes along with what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No not his fault. Makes you wonder why owners have managers. Might as well spend the money themselves as that's all that matters in regards to results. It's obviously not all that matters with regards to results. The thing is that people see Lambert as badly underachieving (yourself included) , which is fine as an opinion of course. However, he's basically delivering league positions of between 16th and 13th whilst spending comparatively less than other clubs and certainly less than clubs above us who we are expected to catch. If you spend less than those you're trying to catch, you don't catch them (unless you unearth gems most of the time). It's that simple. Absolute tosh. If all that was needed was money then everyone would finish in a position exactly according to how much money they had spent. You need a good manager that buys good players at the right price and gets the most out of them. They pretty much do, don't they? You'll obviously have some overachievers and some underachievers but the table is pretty much: more money spent on team = higher league position. I think you will find the competence of each manager has something to do with it. I would feel more confident of Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho finishing higher in the league having spent £50m than I would Alex McLeish or Owen Coyle or Phil Brown spending £100m. Depends on the starting nature of the beast to be honest. Obviously there are better managers and worse managers - but then this changes with each job. Mourinho at Madrid compared to Ancelotti at Madrid for example. In reference to the managers you've listed, Jose Mourinho has had success where he's spent a whole load of money; the same with Alex Ferguson. Arsene Wenger has won comparatively little whilst spending comparatively less. Surely this goes along with what I'm saying? I think if you gave each manager the exact same starting base the first 3 I listed would out perform the latter 3 because they are more competent at what they do. To get back to the topic, I would say that Lambert is far closer in terms of managerial competence to the latter 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Any idea if Lambert is still looking for a new assistant manager or maybe Scott Marshall will be that? seems to be comparing a lot of notes with Lambert lately Edited December 30, 2014 by Villan4Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30620617 Its been a very poor 12 months. It has, yes. I think that shows we're, essentially, 15th in the league? You have got to be kidding me - so we are 15th in the league in terms of points in 2014, around 15th for all goal related statistics, around the same position with the wage bill of our first team squad, one of the lowest net spends of any team in the league and we're 15th?! What happens when we replace the current manager with a Pulis, Pardew, Allardyce, Redknapp, Souness, Dowie, Bruce, Jewell, Hughes, Curbishley - or a foreign manager like Ramos, Jol, Santini, Gullit, Di Matteo, Mel, even no-longer-flavour-of-the-month Martinez - how often does changing the manager make that much of a difference for any significant length of time. Obviously some are better than others (I'd rather Martinez than the rest of that list) but the point is that unless club finances change then it doesn't really make a huge difference who the manager is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 how often does changing the manager make that much of a difference for any significant length of time. So should we have stuck with mcleish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This article made me wonder why Lambert is still at the club http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-goal-gallery-only-8361433 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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