jackbauer24

And that is why the timing of it is actually relevant. 6 days before a match does NOT effect their ability to prepare to do their job properly. Delph isn't even drunk. I take it you don't drink at all, go to bed at 10pm and ensure you have at least 8 hours sleep every day. You eat three balanced meals a day and ensure your general fitness is high so not to let anything get in the way of you doing the best possible job you can? It's about context. Everyone would be up in arms if this was a day or two before a game - but it isn't. It doesn't effect their ability to perform at all. And this over-reaction from fans is ridiculous and is what really makes us look embarrassing. Suarez, Terry, Gerrard amongst others - now that is genuinely doing stuff that brings a good name into disrepute. Having one two many just means they're like 90% of the rest of the population. The people complaining so passionately on here about how these players have disgraced the club are reacting to a bad season and talking from such a moral highground I doubt they have a right to stand on. Sorry. I do my job well and I drank plenty in my youth but I was never in the position to make enough money to retire at 35. If I was, I would hope that I would have the necessary discipline to postpone my end of season celebrations until the season ended. Are we expected to accept second rate behaviour from players representing AVFC just because we're a bit shit in all departments at present. And I think this is the crux of the issue. Jealousy. We all feel that they should suffer because we put them on pedestals and they are rewarded handsomely for what really is a pointless skill for humanity. We feel they should be made to live perfect lives because they are lucky/ gifted in others. Maybe if you earn over a set amount you should be banned from drinking at all. The awards ceremony does seem oddly scheduled, but they were celebrating then because that was when the club held the awards. I'm not saying they're whiter than white. A fine, an apology is enough. It was silly but it was not a disgrace. The over-reaction from the fans is just silly really. Only someone who has never got drunk ever, not made any mistakes can really call these guys a disgrace. Would you say the same things to some friends caught in similar circumstances? I really don't want to add to this thread any more as I've repeatedly made my point. I've got overly irritated at the sanctimonious preaching of our whiter than white supporters... I'm off to kick a door (and I've not even had a drink since New Year!)

And that is why the timing of it is actually relevant. 6 days before a match does NOT effect their ability to prepare to do their job properly. Delph isn't even drunk. I take it you don't drink at all, go to bed at 10pm and ensure you have at least 8 hours sleep every day. You eat three balanced meals a day and ensure your general fitness is high so not to let anything get in the way of you doing the best possible job you can? It's about context. Everyone would be up in arms if this was a day or two before a game - but it isn't. It doesn't effect their ability to perform at all. And this over-reaction from fans is ridiculous and is what really makes us look embarrassing. Suarez, Terry, Gerrard amongst others - now that is genuinely doing stuff that brings a good name into disrepute. Having one two many just means they're like 90% of the rest of the population. The people complaining so passionately on here about how these players have disgraced the club are reacting to a bad season and talking from such a moral highground I doubt they have a right to stand on.

I assume that you are not a professional athlete earning £10k+ per week and taking the hopes of 1,000's of people into a huge game on Sunday! An extra 1% can make all the difference in a professional football game - our lads lose an extra 1%, I can't imagine VdV was out on the piss on Tuesday night. These lads are massively privileged and they haven't got a scooby. 20 odd pages on this?! Seriously. It isn't even that big of an incident (well the bit caught on camera anyway). It's absolutely nothing, ages before a match, no criminal charges and very mild compared to what you normally see on Broad St. This whole 'taking the hopes of 1000's' rubbish too - it's FOOTBALL! Yes, we all love it, yes it's important in some ways and if it'd been the night before the match maybe I'd have a different view - but I can tell you that I'd be a lot more concerned by a doctor ever drinking - 1% loss in concentration IS actually life and death, or my lawyer not being quite all there if I'd been falsely accused of murder! Medically speaking I doubt you could tell which players had been drinking on a Monday and which hadn't by a Saturday morning. Silly, perhaps. Slap on the wrist - public apology to appease the media in light of the whole role-model status but then move on. Fans getting all uppety is ridiculous; it's just cos we're having a sh*t season. I bet none of you complaining have ever had a few drunken nights and done something you regret?! It's a bit double standards, we're all human. Or are we now removing Paul McGrath from GOD like status at Villa Park because he couldn't really be considered a role-model. Silly yes. A 'slur', 'disgusting' or 'insulting' it is not.

Depends what you mean by 'back' - if you mean ever, then it is effectively a who's your favourite player in each position ever. But, more interestingly, if it's who would be available now and would theoretically be able to play tomorrow then it's more of a challenge; GIVEN L YOUNG CAHILL DUNNE WARNOCK A YOUNG MILNER BARRY DOWNING IRELAND BENT SUBS: FRIEDEL, CUELLAR, GABBY, KEANE and (ROTATING YOUNGSTER!) It is striking how weak (relatively) our defence is and what big losses the ageing Laursen and Mellberg were. But what a fantastic midfield and strike force...

I am not a comic/marvel fanboy but thought it was an amazing film! Really, really lived up to every expectation. I've never read any of the comics, so the story arcs (special credits bit) etc mean very little to me but that hasn't stopped me enjoying it. The Ironman films were great, Thor was good and Captain America was OK but the Avengers was absolutely stunning in every way. Perfect summer movie. Been a long time since I've gone to the cinema expecting a lot and, not only been pleased, but enjoyed it more than I thought I possibly could! Small complaint is that the Hulk character (in this incarnation) is not fully explored and his transition in control comes a bit too simply - for such a primary character (whereas Black Widow and Hawkeye were secondary really) he probably could have done with his own movie too - yes I know the character has had two but a) they weren't made within this vein and b)the first one especially was appalling!! I'd be highly surprised if anything could beat it for film of 2012. Dark Knight will be good, but dark and in certain ways quite predictable, Prometheas will be a let down (just a guess) , Spiderman is going to struggle (too close to Maguire version), Bourne Legacy doesn't have Bourne, Skyfall will be bang on as expected, Hobbit will be great but no LOTR whereas Snow White and the Huntsman might be a dark horse. It's certainly not going to be a quiet year!

Anymore than two 'said's in a sentence and I automatically don't believe it! I actually am beginning to get the feeling that since Bolton it has almost become inevitable, but that nothing will be announced until the season closes. He's probably been told as much, but will get a better severance package if a) he keeps us up and he keeps his mouth shut.

By handballing it in such an obvious way he'd have been sent off in 9 out of 10 games, given away a penalty and put us in a ridiculous difficult position. On the other hand he got away with it due to a blind ref who missed everything today so I'm bloomin' happy as that could prove a vital point. Surely celebrating someone so blatantly cheating is no better that clapping Young when he dive for a penalty?! Can be pleased with the outcome but disappointed at the process. Like much of this season, he's been very very lucky. And considering his performances this season that is particularly worrying! Imagine how bad he'd be if luck deserted him! He is without doubt the worst player I have ever seen in a Villa shirt.

No, my focus is completely on QPR. I'm 99% sure that both Wigan and Bolton will pass us based on form and fixtures. Wolves have gone (obviously) and Blackburn nearly have. So it's between us and QPR for the last position I guess and you've just got to hope that they get nothing from Chelsea and Man City and therefore a point would be enough regardless of their result against Stoke. It's going to be damn close though and is almost inevitably going to come down to the final day.

Lerner has respect for the club? Laughable. No, he does, I think your comment is short term memory based, perhaps. The murals on the Holte, though they have nothing to do with playing on the pitch, show he does respect the history. As does bringing back the 81/82 side for that Sheff Utd game, as do many things. Just because he's appointed a coupe of duff managers and the team is losing doesn't mean he doesn't "get" the history or appreciate or respect it. Quite the opposite. He may appreciate it/ respect it but I don't think he understands it. I don't think he fully grasps English football, there are just some things you don't do to supporters and he's made some awful decisions this year and if they don't show he lacks respect then it must mean he lacks understanding. It's unwise to hire a BCFC manager, it's stupid to hire a twice relegated BCFC manager, it's idiotic to keep him after an awful first half of the season and it's beyond all comprehension to back him still after our worst ever home record, our lowest Prem tally and the fact we are perilously close to relegation.

This is a good theory, but in practice simply can't work. The issue with the protests has been that most fans do not go on message boards etc. The only thing that we all do is go to games - you need to bring the protest to them. There is this belief that it is just a small minority of Villa fans that are against AMC so vehemently, but in fact it's just a matter of publicity. Put it this way, if everyone on this board today (including all those abroad etc) could protest at Villa Park it'd still be considered a small minority. No-one else would be aware. But if you make 30,000 leaflets available, and are handing them out at the game (no 'meet here', or 'sing this' or other things that need loads of planning) then I think you'd find a good 90% will hold on to it considering the feelings of the Claret and Blue faithful and use it if they feel it's appropriate to (like after the match or 5th goal goes in against us...) Apathy is killing this club. I couldn't give a rats ass about our perception as fans, I just want what is right for our club and if all I need to do is make my feelings heard is attend a match and hold up a piece of paper then I'm all for it.

Weirdly enough my choice isn't there - but then again I'd probably be in a minority anyway: I'd get a season ticket next year if McLeish was sacked OR if we were relegated oddly enough. This strange condition is for a few reasons, one being that I hope that would be enough to see the back of him but also because we'd get more games and you'd hope that it would be successful campaign. At the moment the prospect of next year fills me with no hope so why would I want one of the more expensive tickets (Trinity Lower) knowing it's going to be painful every other week. Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see us relegated but if we did I'd feel more inclined to watch us every week in the knowledge that at least we'd be aiming for the top rather than simply survival. I don't want to be a big fish in a small pool but I can't deny that it'd be nicer to watch (in terms of hope if not quality) - or put it this way, I'll support Villa til I die but I'll only spend a lot on what is a luxury at the end of the day if you feel like it will make you happy; whether that be the Premiership or League Two. It's like having a high paid high pressured job, great benefits but sometimes you just wish for the relative relaxation of an office job where this is no pressure. But we'd all like to get back to the high powered job eventually!

Like I've said before; forget everything personal or agendas etc. If we have the worst season we've ever had in the Premiership (which is almost inevitable) then one of two things are at fault. A) McLeish is rubbish and must be sacked OR He inherited the worst team with the worst financial situation which is Lerner's fault and he should go. I fail to see how there is a grey area there. Personally I think it's A. This squad is not the worst we've ever had by a long shot and therefore there are no excuses that can explain such a poor showing this season.

Actually it's not moronic at all IF he realises how badly AMC has failed and sacks him. He can either say we should be fighting for Europe and sack AMC for failing OR he can say AMC has achieved what was expected of him considering any rubbish reasons they want and admit he was a moron. But there is no middle ground there.

I don't agree. Yes we have some poor players in this squad but the overall quality is not the worst we've ever had in Premier League history. The blame lies at the door of AMC completely, even if he'd bought no-one of his own he should be able to get this squad higher in the league. Heskey is rubbish yes; but MON bought him and got the team to 6th. Houllier had him in his squad and got us 9th (eventually!). Hutton is rubbish, but he's an AMC signing anyway - but worse than Jloyd Samuel?! Dunne's had a bad year, but worse than Zat Knight? We've had, at least at some point for the campaign, some very good players that should have Villa way up the table. Bent is arguably one of the top 4 or 5 strikers we've ever had. Given is better than a at least 75% of our previous goalkeepers, Dunne, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby all players most mid league teams would want easily. Even our youngsters (a handful of which I have accused of not being good enough too) are still no worst than Moore or Davis etc. It's not our best squad. But it's nowhere near our worst either. On paper it's a top 10/12 team easily. AMC is at fault for it being any lower. Last season we underachieved, this year we've been disgusting.

I'd love to know who's less popular DOL or McLeish? For years on these forums the byword for failure and ridicule has been DOL, but that is surely to change now? Is there anyone who thinks McLeish is a better manager than DOL?!

You could take every match this season and argue whether we deserved more/less, whether it was AMC fault and every match would have loads of people with different views. Fortunately we have something called a league table and statistics to get an overall pattern, regardless of who was available, the tactics of one specific match. And those stats point to his sacking as soon as we're safe: We have won 7 games (joint 18th in the league) which will inevitably be our lowest total since 1890 when there were only 22 games! We need to win two more matches the 90/91 low. We had eight wins when we got relegated last... We have scored 35 goals (joint 17th in the league) and unless we grab another 6/7 could be our worst in 40 years. We are on course for our lowest point tally in the Premiership. Again, last time we got less than 40point we were relegated. But of course this is all irrelevant as the only reason we dislike him is because he's an ex-city manager! There is simply no argument for him to stay. No-one can say that even if he'd had no money and bought no-one that this poor a performance can be acceptable?! There are no reasons which are good enough. Houllier inherited a team with no preseason, half way through the year, with medical issues of his own and still did better than this idiot. I have no personal issues with him but the facts are there that simply show how poor HIS team has been. There can be no arguments against it. It's simple. Unless Lerner is suggesting he inherited a squad that is the worst in our Premier League history? And if that's the case Lerner, you've been at the club more than five years so is it your fault?! OUT.

There is a danger that this injury crisis could be used as an excuse for McLeish and even make it look like he's a genius using the youngsters. Let's get this straight, McLeish should have picked up FAR more points when we had our full squad available. This injury crisis (which no-one can blame him for) would have been a lot less significant if we'd seen a slide from 10th than putting a ton of pressure on youngsters as they fight for our survival because it hit an already struggling side. Which is why I actually don't think there is any point of getting rid of McLeish until we are now mathematically safe. The new manager will basically have to put out the same team such is the limited choice. The risks (uncertainty/ rudderless etc) outweigh the benefits considering how little scope for change there is at this moment in time. However the SECOND we're safe he should be shown the door. A team that has had a nucleus of players such as Given, Dunne, Collins, Petrov, N'Zogbia, Ireland and Bent available for a majority of the season should under no circumstances be in the position we are. Lower midtable at worst (12th) even 7/8/9th until the injury crisis started really hitting. I bet most fans would happily see our transfer budget fall by £5m if it meant seeing the back of him. Never in all my time supporting Villa (20yrs) have I seen a less liked manager - even DOL! And the whole Blues thing IS a problem, but for the opposite reason; I couldn't give a monkeys where he's come from but I think he's being afforded more time because press/board believe that's our problem with him and are ignoring the actual reasons - like breaking all the unenviable records for poor performance parameters! Can't stand him. OUT OUT OUT (the second we're safe!).

The managerial position is in somewhat of a dead zone at the moment; it would show ridiculous leadership from above to make any decisive decisions (public) now. A month or so ago, yes sack him and get someone in for the run in. After we're mathematically safe, sack him. But now we've reached a point where it serves absolutely no point to get rid with urgency - be nice, but kind of pointless. Just scrape together the points, try not to rock an already capsizing boat and get to that safety spot as soon as possible. Sacking him now adds further uncertainty, distractions and means the squad would be playing match days without a familiar backroom staff, captain or many first team regulars. I feel the point gain would be negligible now even if a new manager did come in considering the depleted squad and it's not worth the risk. You've still got to hope we can pick up at least 5 points before the end of the season even with this idiot. Don't get me wrong, all roads should lead to McLeish being gone by May at the latest. However, I just can't see it happening unfortunately. Money is now the most important thing to Lerner. Let's hope safety equates to McLeish out and Lerner putting us up for sale.

I separate this from all the doom and gloom around Villa at the moment, Albrighton is no more of a 'scapegoat' than a few other players. Simply put, he's just not that good. He's joins a long line of Villa youth players, he's got something but not enough. He has had ups and downs like all players but he's only ever really shown one ability; run, head down, cross or shoot with no real thought. 90% of the time that will result in nothing but occasionally it can be exceptional. He's been like this from the start and is just like 100's of players on the border of Premiership/Championship quality. Nothing special. When he was seen as the new star, Villa were playing well and we could afford to carry him and see him run down blind alleys and put in poor crosses because others would take up the slack. He'd have a mazy run and score and we'd be amazed. But in a struggling team he simply doesn't have that luxury; and he's not even that young any more. Albrighton and Delfounso, like many youngsters before them are all adequate at best. We just hope, because they're local lads that they can be more than they are. Bannan is quickly joining them. Gardner is next one we'll all start overhyping... they're is always one star but you need to get through 10 odd 'next stars' before a real one comes through. The Moore brothers, Ridgewell, Whittingham, Davis, C Gardner, Osbourne and before that players like Byfield and Rachel (GK) have all been touted as the next best thing and have all pretty much gone down hill. Real successes include Gabby, Cahill (now), Barry and Vassell, but we need to be realistic; we've never really had (and certainly now) don't have that Golden generation of youth. Albrighton isn't awful, at least he's never cost us a bundle of cash (I'm looking at you Heskey and Hutton) but he's squad player at best and probably far more suited to joining a Championship team and becoming a big fish in a little pond like Whittingham at Cardiff.

I think it's unfair to blame the second half on McLeish. He's responsible for both halves after all - if you say he's at fault for setting them up badly for the second half then he should be praised for setting them up well for the first. A McLeish fan I hear you call... no, don't be ridiculous (they don't exist do they?!) in fact I think the game from start to finish was McLeish's responsibilty and it was actually Blackburn who dictated both halves; by being rubbish in first half and making us look good, then stepping up to Championship standard and winning the second half. We have a plan and we stuck to it from the first minute - nothing changed other than Blackburn's effort/ skill. McLeish needs removing. If we can't afford a new manager/ to sack him then give him a new position that undermines him (like an honorary director of football with no real power but seemingly significant enough not to be constructive dismissal!!) and put KMac back in charge of first team affairs til season close.

I just don't understand; you lose your most experienced midfielder so instead off trying best to replace him with a youngster you decide the whole midfield should be as inexperienced as possible?! It could be a master stroke (there's always a first time!) but that seems like shocking decision to take out both Ireland and N'Zogbia and makes you wonder whether this is a tactical decision or a personal one. Surely a loss today will result in huge pressure on McLeish.

This is perhaps a lot more difficult than it should be. If we look at transfer expenditure, you may be surprised to find there isn't as much difference between Ellis and Lerner as I thought there'd be. Taking the numbers from transfermarkt.co.uk I roughly calculate: Lerner's six years as chairman, total expenditure £85m Then chose 94-01 (before Ellis started looking to sell), total expenditure £40m Considering the general rise in costs of players, income in sky money etc it could even be argued that Ellis spent nearly the same - surely that would be the case if tied to general revenue of the club but I have no facts to back that up. Or you could look at club stability (financially) and I think it's seen by all as a case of Ellis definitely winning that one. Revenue is up, but so are wages. And the club is now in a lot of debt. Or you could look at respecting history and tradition, Lerner wins that by a mile. Got to say that Ellis never employed someone the fans were against from the start and fired people quickly if the fans correctly saw what was happening (DOL). It's so close to call. Lerner lies more, Ellis was more deluded. Lerner bought this club at a bargain considering we weren't in debt and if you look at how much other clubs sell for. I can't vote. It's too close. But if I was absolutely forced to choose, I'd be swaying toward Ellis to be honest. And that pains me to say.

Worst home record in nearly a quarter of a century. Playing Heskey. Buying Hutton. Relegation a distinct possibility. History of taking teams down. Negative tactics. Not even trying against anyone in the top 14! But real reason is just because he comes from Blose.... mmm. GO!

This post was written about a week ago. Originally we needed SEVEN teams of NINE clubs to overtake us with 16 games remaining for us to be relegated. It was just a concern. Now we need FIVE teams of SEVEN clubs to overtake us with 14 games remaining for us to be relegated. It's more of a concern. That's ONE week and TWO games. It's so close that it's quite easy for those teams to leap above us. We are dropping rapidly. We occasionally plateau with a draw but then start falling again. We are NOT out of danger by any means. At the rate above we'll be deep in trouble in a other few weeks. For the record I think we'll survive, just. But next year is probably going to be the year we do get relegated unless major change happens starting with AMC.

18 years in top flight football at an average of 6 goals a season. It'd be great so see someone with those stats. How many games did it take them to reach these numbers? Would Shearer still be top given Henry's much fewer number of games (I imagine?) And how would the clubs share these goals between them - but that's a fair bit of research too. Anyone fancy it? I don't... but that's just cos I'm lazy...