colhint

or people with pensions?

nah, he should have held it

brilliant day, and if I'honest, had a few beers too many. But my sons under 11's Rugby. The RFU don;t let us play leagues yest, so its all friendlies. But at the end of the season we have Festivals, where loads of teams get together and have sort of a cup all in one day. Play some group games, then semi's and a final. We won. My son is a forward. Made some massive hits, scored 2 tries, Got a winners medal, and player of the tournament. The best part for me, well 3 really. A 25 metre run, not like the backs on the wing. Straight through the middle, knocking kids out of the way, then a perfect offload to our winger to score. Second one, were holding on to a 2 try to nil lead in the semi when there is a maul by them right close to our line, our forwards drive their forwards into touch. Young Ollie waiting in the lineout screams, come one boys we are brilliant, lifted everyone. Then defending our line in the last minute of the final, he drives their biggest lad back 5 yards, we recover the ball and boot it in to touch, game over

That's the bit I can't work out. Are scientists saying it is 100% man made, and no other influence. I'm no expert on this at all. So I don't know, but I have no reason to doubt the scientists.

I'm sure this is said, tongue in cheek

My argument is that no significant harm is being felt. Of course the transition to renewables isn't pain free. But to put it in perspective europe's largest economy recorded larger than expected growth in 2013. Germany's co2 emissions are actually going down because they're producing more energy from less coal. In this country we have higher energy prices, before tax, so unlike Germany our country isn't generating much tax revenue from household energy bills. Our government isn't gearing for a future without fossil fuels. Germany is. People are looking closely at them, waiting for it to fail, looking for cracks. Vested interests want it to fail. We should look at Germany, learn from the mistakes. But ultimately we need to be on their path, not the path we are on. I have to disagree. The EU energy portal records the prices the consumer pays. That quite clearly has the uk significantly lower than Germany. As for CO2 emissions going down well Business green reports that Germany is going up. http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2271203/uk-and-germany-see-co2-emissions-from-energy-rise-over-2012 It also reports it has the highest emissions in Europe Der Spiegel reports how Germany is trying to block any EU co2 reduction deals http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-delays-eu-decision-on-lower-co2-emissions-for-cars-a-908176.html They are not producing less CO2 because they are producing more energy from less coal. It is quite the reverse. They are producing less energy from more coal, using lignite brown coal. Germany has the Largest deposits of this type in the world. It is often called dirty fuel. I still don't buy the no harm is being done. Der spigel report on some of the German Automobile industry thinking of moving out of Europe. And the EU energy portal states that Germans now pay the second highest fuel prices in Europe

When I lived in Chester, we looked at going to the one in the lake district. (2 hours away) We found it was cheaper, to drive, take the ferry and go to one in Holland

Unless I have misinterpreted that, it's not quite what I mean't. I am certain I agree with the scientists. What I was trying to get at in a low key way was, how much could be apportioned to humans and how much to natural effects. I think that said that almost all scientists believe that humans were to blame in some form. I might just have read it wrong, and it's fish and chips tonight and my minds more on that.

I also think it's man made, but only to a point, I think part of it is natural. I can't decide how much is man made and how much is natural. However mankind could do a lot, just don't buy so much. People don't need to replace everything, just because there is something newer on the market.

We may not have the cheapest wholesale, I don't know, where did you get your info? But the EU energy portal, reports on prices to customer. That's where I got my prices from http://www.energy.eu/ Secondly they are not just building new more efficient energy plants, which will take years to be ready. They are re commissioning existing plants which run on Lignite. Last year Energy from Lignite, was at it's highest level in germany for nearly 25 years. Is it harming their economy, Well they are being investigated by the EU, because to forestall job losses they are exempting companies who depend on electricity (I can't think of any company that doesn't depend on Electricity) from paying any green taxes.. This is quite clearly against both EU green laws and competition laws. http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21594336-germanys-new-super-minister-energy-and-economy-has-his-work-cut-out-sunny-windy-costly So I would say yes it is harming their economy, wouldn't you?

Not quite true is it? Germany has higher energy prices than us, gas by about 25% and electric by about 40% And now they are going back to lignite power stations. Lignite being the Nastiest and least efficient coal there is. Just they are sitting on tons of it

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly. Whilst it maybe there are more transactions per patient in Insurance based health care the NHS is so much bigger than any individual Insurance company/ healthcare. Overall there will be more transactions in the NHS than any single insurance one. Besides, it depends what you mean by a transaction. I would call all procurement a transaction. and that dwarfs anyone else.

What she actually said was Isn't it obviously, self-evidently true that if on top of treatment you have a system of charging individuals or their insurance companies for each instance or course of treatment, there are more transactions? Not really true though Peter. For a start Isn't the NHS much bigger than any insurance based treatment, so whilst there is an easier audit trail in insurance based, the sheer volume of transactions in the NHS would be larger than anyone else. Now I have looked at the report, ( i can't bloody find it at the minute) But If you look at the US which has more insurance based claims than anyone I would think. They had a much higher rate of fraud than us. That leads me to believe that when there is clear audit trail, there is fraud. I cannot believe where there is no audit trail, it would be considerably better

Or they could read the report and decide, we are so much better than the other countries we don't need to do anything or decide maybe there is something in this and investigate. If they decide the former I believe they are being naive. And they could also look at the stutterers and say we have only a couple, and ask, if the US, Holland, France, Belgium and NZ are all considerably higher, are we certain our figures are correct

What I am suggesting is investigate the level of the fraud, what do they think it could be compared to the other nations and start from there. And it isn't plebs, trying to defraud is it. It'll be people working within the NHS won't it?

but surely it's worth investigating

whether it is balanced or not, I don't know. But she appears to be putting her head in the sand. She quotes the £229m. But that is what they have evidence for. So does she believe that they have caught everyone? She then said that the NHS is free at point of use, so there aren't as many transactions. What a complete load of cobblers. £100bn and few transaction. Then she goes on to the report. First mocking, asking if people really do hope they get cancer, so they can max out their benefit. Well no they don't, but she could have just as easily used the quote from guys hospital, where they call the maternity ward the Lagos shuttle. Then, its a quick this is insignificant we should be taxing the rich. Well yes we should but we should also be looking at fraud in the NHS. So then she mocks the report because it was by accountants, but failed to mention it was commissioned by Portsmouth University, and co authored by accountants. Finally she has a go, at the size of the data. Well it came from UK US France Belgium, Holland and NZ. and they reported actual evidence Fraud, what they have caught. Now I don't know what the level of fraud is. but I would be amazed if it was the reported figure. But I hope the government would seriously look into it, not just don't knock our NHS. No doubt Its been going on some time so all parties will be at fault

or we could shoot a dozen at random, just to keep them on their toes a bit.

yup. One of the reasons I particularly dislike Ed Balls, how can a Norwich supporting, London dwelling, Public Schoolboy ever get to represent a Labour stronghold in West Yorkshire. I'm sure there are plenty like that on the Tory benches too

I do feel that way too Ash, although I would stil feel compelled to go down and stick my X in the Green Box. Even though it'll make not a jot of difference. Democracy has been reduced to voting for whoever and whatever party you think will be the least corrupt or damaging in the main, If your lucky you may get a good honest politician to vote for in your constituency, but they are pretty thin on the ground. A pretty damming state of affairs. Dichotomy for certain

I wonder if Maddie is on the plane?

People go on about us not winning 3 in a row. But Stoke haven't lost for the last three, they ain't great. So can they not lose for 4 games

oooh have I predicted something right at last

Don't think he was ever a politician was he?

I think you're missing just one word. And it will make so much difference one way or another