Big_John_10 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 First of all it's very hard to measure the omportance of our training facilities, but there's a huge different between one of the best training facilities in the world and one where they don't even water the pitches, wouldn't you agree? There is very much of the difference between Randy and Ellis. One put big money in to improve BH and VP whilst the other couldn't even bare to make them playable. And yet here we are worried about relegation for the 2nd season in a row with a manager the majority of fans can't stand. Clearly these things, while having improved, just don't really matter in the big scheme of things at the club. I can understand the older fans who were around for doug taking us down but for me my main support of villa has been during the premiership years and right now I can't think of a time it was this bad. Also i can't think of a single premiership club that rewarded a manager who had just been relegated with a job and pay rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 First of all it's very hard to measure the omportance of our training facilities, but there's a huge different between one of the best training facilities in the world and one where they don't even water the pitches, wouldn't you agree? There is very much of the difference between Randy and Ellis. One put big money in to improve BH and VP whilst the other couldn't even bare to make them playable. And yet here we are worried about relegation for the 2nd season in a row with a manager the majority of fans can't stand. Clearly these things, while having improved, just don't really matter in the big scheme of things at the club. I can understand the older fans who were around for doug taking us down but for me my main support of villa has been during the premiership years and right now I can't think of a time it was this bad. Also i can't think of a single premiership club that rewarded a manager who had just been relegated with a job and pay rise. I can - http://tinyurl.com/Can-t-afford-Bakke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 If DOL had of stayed during the 06/07 season, where does everyone think we would of finished? I think 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Terrifyingly True. Doug was many things and had many faults but at leist he was a great leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Terrifyingly True. Doug was many things and had many faults but at leist he was a great leader. A great leader? I can only assume this is tongue in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 Our youth set up has been pretty good for quite a while - at least 20 years - and I don't see that it's any better or worse now than it was in Before-Lerner times. I'm not aware of him having done anything specific about the youth set up but no doubt someone will leap to correct me if that's not right. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with how things are at the moment. It's just when I think through things rationally I'd rather be where we are now than where we were then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with how things are at the moment. It's just when I think through things rationally I'd rather be where we are now than where we were then. I'm not sure if you mean on or off the pitch but personally I think off the pitch I'd rather be where we were then. Back then we knew one way or another Ellis' days were numbered, that he wouldn't be here forever and we all hoped that someone would come in and wake the club up. Randy did it but now the club has gone back to sleep again. This time we don't even have the hope to cling to that someone better is going to come in and turn us around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongKongVillan Posted April 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Terrifyingly True. Doug was many things and had many faults but at leist he was a great leader. That great leader apparently who walked into the Villa dressing room after we missed out on Europe (on DOL season) on goal diff on the last day, and told the players that they have cost him millions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 he'll not get the money back if he sells. The worry is if he were to decide to stop funding the losses completely and just give up on the thing all together. There's no sign of that, quite the opposite, but it's why he is rightly re-setting the finances, because he is not able to indefinitely finance a loss making enterprise. Like Oil tankers things turn round slowly. You are quite right he wouldn't, or at least he wouldn't right now. If he sticks around a few years though running us on the cheap and repaying the loans he will get the majority of it back and then he just might be able to sell the club to cover the cost of buying it. Personally I think this is likely to be what we see happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Trent wrote this Back then we knew one way or another Ellis' days were numbered, that he wouldn't be here forever and we all hoped that someone would come in and wake the club up. Randy did it but now the club has gone back to sleep again. This time we don't even have the hope to cling to that someone better is going to come in and turn us around. Completely nail on head as they say. There was always a thread of hope that Doug would go/die/sell or whatever. RL is now here for the long term and therefore any hope of an improvement on what we now have goes with that. He has shown with his recent appointments of McEck and Faulkner we are in a seriously bad position. My signature sets out what he said in 2006 - so why is he not moving on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 My signature sets out what he said in 2006 - so why is he not moving on? Because the value the club would command, if he could find an interested party wouldn't be sufficient to get even remotely close to covering what he has invested. In fact given the scale of our debt I doubt he would be able to find someone to buy the club for the amount he paid for it. That is why I've long said we aren't up for sale at the moment and that there wasn't likely to be any truth in takeover rumours. I think Randy will stick around a few years, repay the loans to himself, charge interest and management fees and once the club is debt free and he has recouped most of what he has invested he will look to sell and recoup the initial investment of buying the club. In order to do that he just needs us to stay in the PL and keep our wage bill lower than our income to generate enough money to repay the loans. I don't think Randy is going anywhere any time soon and I don't think things are likely to improve for us much even if Randy owns up to his mistake and gets rid of McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So what exactly are you hoping for? Man City style multi-billionaire owners? Apart from the appointment of McLeish what is your overarching concern with Lerner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We finished that season with 42 points and I think most fans felt DOL would be sacked. I doubt we'll get 42 points this season and I'm 99% sure Mcleish will still be manager next year. Terrifyingly True. Doug was many things and had many faults but at leist he was a great leader. Olearys position became untenable as soon as he tried to organise a mutiny against Doug. He may well have been sacked anyway because of league placing but that isn't the main reason he was sacked. And Doug was not a good leader he was a good book keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 So what exactly are you hoping for? Man City style multi-billionaire owners? Apart from the appointment of McLeish what is your overarching concern with Lerner? I'm not really hoping for anything to be honest, I certainly don't hold out any hope of a muti-billionaire owners and as Randy has shown even if you do get one it doesn't mean success. My criticism with Randy has never really been about the amount of investment more the decisions which he makes. As for overarching concerns with Lerner, no offence intended so please don't take any but I've gone through them so many times that I can't really be bothered to do so again. I've also spelled out in my last few posts what I believe the future holds under Lerner. Randy has made countless mistakes since he arrived, not just the appointment of McLeish. Quite simply I don't think he is up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 If DOL had of stayed during the 06/07 season, where does everyone think we would of finished? I think 17th. 19th as we would have probably lost Barry as well, I think if Randy didnt take over we be playing SHeffield Wednesday or Huddersfield this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The youth production line is little different, strings of average players being produced. youth set up is all about luck for me. Villa have a great record of producing solid professionals but to get top talent sometimes its usually all about location of that talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 'I'm what you call the custodian. There have been plenty of custodians of Aston Villa since 1874 and if I can't make it work, I will do what the others did, move on and let someone else try.' Lerner - Aug 2006 Has no one noticed that there have not been "others" that have moved on "and let someone else try", except probably Doug. All pre-Lerner "custodians" of Villa have been elected boards that have changed according to a democratic vote. Lerner really is the exception - he's created a new era of management of the club that never existed in his style before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Randy made mistakes, I believe he's trying to correct them now, and i think he's done enough good to be given the time to do that, and then see where he takes us from there. If he f***s up again though I want his head on the gates by the North Stand ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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