villabromsgrove Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Trying to make some valid Randy Lerner points on here guys. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Mantis....whatever thread i post in you always seem intent on bringing it back round to your apparent perception that i 'love' Mcleish. Its a bit childish and would rather just skim over your posts and ignore them. But when youre picking up on every post i make it gets a bit tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Mantis....whatever thread i post in you always seem intent on bringing it back round to your apparent perception that i 'love' Mcleish. Its a bit childish and would rather just skim over your posts and ignore them. But when youre picking up on every post i make it gets a bit tedious.No I don't think you love McLeish. I never said that. However, you don't seem to want to admit that McLeish is at fault for anything. In response to our league position you said our squad was bottom 6 quality because "the league doesn't lie". You called Bent useless because he hasn't got many goals this season, seemingly ignoring his the fact that he's been isolated by McLeish's tactics. When you saying something like "Bent's been useless" people are going to pick up on that because that statement is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I love the bickering and bitching between Mantis and Stu_The_Villan. It is great fun to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Jaysus....didnt i highlight to you a post i made in the Mcleish thread whereby i put part of the blame with him and part with the players?!?! Is that not blaming him?? Or is it simply because you want me to admit to you that he is 100% responsible? Because if thats the case, i wont. Simple reason being because hes not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Jaysus....didnt i highlight to you a post i made in the Mcleish thread whereby i put part of the blame with him and part with the players?!?! Is that not blaming him?? Or is it simply because you want me to admit to you that he is 100% responsible? Because if thats the case, i wont. Simple reason being because hes not!!You seem to think our squad is bottom 6 quality, which it most definitely isn't. No I don't want you do that, because McLeish isn't 100% to blame. Would be nice if you didn't try and shift the blame from him all the time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Voinjama....Glad somebody enjoying this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The simple fact is that AVFC is being run as a business, by businessmen. There is no professional football brain at executive level which is why Aston Villa is lurching around like a rudderless ship. It should not have taken five years for RL to identify and address this lack of expertise. If we hang on to our Premiership status this season (as I still expect us to do) then maybe RL will finally accept that spending money on an experienced "Steve Stride" type of senior executive would be a step in the right direction. There are very few "professional football brains at executive level" out there. Most clubs have people with a business grounding, rather than football experience. Some do eventually become "football executives", such as Dein or Kenyon. And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 If we go down - I think itll be this season rather than next. If mcleish has the chance to do what he wants then we'll be marginally better next season I think. If he is kept and isnt backed in the summer, then we are **** - and then I'll have issues with Lerner. I dont really give a **** if im not in the 'cool' kids club on here, trent. Cool kids? It has nothing to do with being 'cool' and everything to do with having some common sense and the ability to see that Lerner has made far more mistakes than just appointing McLeish. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but I just think you will struggle to find anyone who shares it. I agree with lexicon's sentiment, although I do think Lerner has made mistakes beyond hiring McLeish. However, I think some of the criticism of Lerner on here is completely over the top. Particularly as I think everyone is actually fully aware of the reality of what has panned out over the last few years. Lerner threw money at MON with the hope the he would achieve Champion's League football and change the commercial fortunes of the club. As MON came close year on year, Lerner continued to throw money at him until, having failed for the third year to make it, he was forced to begin a process of rartionalisation (especially with the financial fair play rules looming) with the hope of bringing the kids through before perhaps having another crack. We're now a couple of years into that process. Lerner was sold on the idea that Houllier had a track record of bringing youngsters through and a fantastic scouting network with which to supplement our own promising youngsters. I still believe that if Houllier hadn't fallen ill, had a full close season, and had been able to bring more of his own players in, we would be starting to see progress. It wasn't to be. Was it a mistake to hire McLeish - possibly, or perhaps, given the limited number of managers willing to take on the role, he was the best of a bad bunch. For me, much as I loved him, MON made far more mistakes than Lerner. Perhaps Lerner's biggest mistake beyond hiring McLeish was putting so much trust in MON. People have been through it many times before on here, but some of the contracts MON signed squad players on were criminal. He failed to make the correct signings at crucial times and worse of all, when the cash dried up he spat his dummy out and **** off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The simple fact is that AVFC is being run as a business, by businessmen. There is no professional football brain at executive level which is why Aston Villa is lurching around like a rudderless ship. It should not have taken five years for RL to identify and address this lack of expertise. If we hang on to our Premiership status this season (as I still expect us to do) then maybe RL will finally accept that spending money on an experienced "Steve Stride" type of senior executive would be a step in the right direction. There are very few "professional football brains at executive level" out there. Most clubs have people with a business grounding, rather than football experience. Some do eventually become "football executives", such as Dein or Kenyon. And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. You make a good point Trees. However, a footballing background may well have stopped the disastrous appointments of Alex McLeish and Peter Grant. Also good footballing contacts, and phone numbers in a footballing CEO's "little black book" are gained over a considerable number of years, and however hard working Paul Faulkner is he cannot have the worldwide intimate contacts that made someone like David Dein so good at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The simple fact is that AVFC is being run as a business, by businessmen. There is no professional football brain at executive level which is why Aston Villa is lurching around like a rudderless ship. It should not have taken five years for RL to identify and address this lack of expertise. If we hang on to our Premiership status this season (as I still expect us to do) then maybe RL will finally accept that spending money on an experienced "Steve Stride" type of senior executive would be a step in the right direction. There are very few "professional football brains at executive level" out there. Most clubs have people with a business grounding, rather than football experience. Some do eventually become "football executives", such as Dein or Kenyon. And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. AVFC is being run as a business by some of the worst business men I have ever seen. I wouldnt let Lerner look after a car boot sale never mind a multi million pound football club. some of his financial decisions are baffling to say the least and he has ruined us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Lerner is going to end up being more hated then Ellis was. I can see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. I doubt that somehow. Wasn't Faulkner just customer services manager at MBNA or something? Promoted way above his station in any case, and on his watch just about everything has gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. I doubt that somehow. Wasn't Faulkner just customer services manager at MBNA or something? Promoted way above his station in any case, and on his watch just about everything has gone wrong. He was head of customer services, then he moved up at MBNA. You would think somebody with customer services experience would have realised how disasterous appointing a manger from small heath alliance would have been :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 And, much as I am not a PF fan, i would venture that he has better rounded business experience than Steve Stride, despite the age gap. I doubt that somehow. Wasn't Faulkner just customer services manager at MBNA or something? Promoted way above his station in any case, and on his watch just about everything has gone wrong. Probably, but then SS was office junior who rose up through a business owned by Ellis and managed like a corner shop. On that basis a CSM at MBNA has more experience. But I agree that PF has probably been promoted way above his station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The thing is though, David Dein is a football man, not in the sense that he used to play football but in the sense that he obviously knows what hes on about and has been involved in the game for years. Faulkner strikes me more of a netball man in his freshman year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The thing is though, David Dein is a football man, not in the sense that he used to play football but in the sense that he obviously knows what hes on about and has been involved in the game for years. Faulkner strikes me more of a netball man in his freshman year You're right Stu, the best "footballing CEOs" are guys who've wheeled and dealed in a footballing environment for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Can anyone seriously tell me that the place we are at as a club as of today is where they expected to be under the onwership of Lerner? This is not the brave new world that was promised when he bought us. He has taken us backwards and to me ranks alongside or just below Ellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Richard, I never believed the hype back in 2007 about bright future, championship chasing, champions league winning nonsense I was hearing on this site. But I at least thought we would be challenging for Europe every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 For me, much as I loved him, MON made far more mistakes than Lerner. MON left after our best season in years. Lerner appointed Mcleish. Lerner appointed houllier. Our spending has increased since MoN left. Lerner had to pay £12 million to ex managers and then pay blues while also giving Mcleish a pay rise. Lerner has made a mess of this club and soon those early pr stunts will have worn off on his last few followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts