NeilS Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 WWII Fighter Plane Found On Moon (next to Mitre Football) Are you saying that James Collins was trying to master the art of passing from a very young age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 he point we all seem to be missing is that Lerner has not simply turned the tap off on spending because he cant afford it. Yes he may be nursing some burned fingers, but it's not as if he or the club are in any kind of financial trouble. What has become clear is that the level of spending was not sustainable, and even if it was it would be fruitless. We would need spending to exceed what it was at the height of the Lerner reign in order to establish ourselves as a regular top 4 team. On top of that the big clubs have moaned to UEFA that that chavvy Citeh have won the lottery and moved out of their council house into their street and they dont like it. The UEFA rules will affect the majority of clubs, Citeh may have just done enough just in time to fall the right side of the line when it is finally drawn, but even still there's talk in the club of reducing spending over the next few years to appease UEFA. Yes we can sit here and argue that wealthy owners can find ways too artificially boost income, but as we've seen with City the rest of the footballing world are going to make sure UEFA have a proper look at it, and we still have not heard the official UEFA findings into that deal. When the regs come in it may well be that the money receievd for the gound naming (well maybe not all of it) can be counted as an officvial source of income. The issue this all boils down to is the level of the club's income. Now Lerner is not to blame for that being limited to the level it is now, we have to look at our previous owner who failed to realise the significance of the PL, SKY and the CL. Lerner came in and had a pretty good go at forcing the issue, but in reality he was never going to achieve any long term gains based on the money available. It's funny how he's gone from the very model of a foreign owner to the worse owner ever and all he's really done is stop splashing the cash. Before it was oh look at the training facilities, look at the ground, the Holte pub, isn't our support of Acorns wonderful. Now it's all he's left us with is a decent training ground and a shitty pub. No wonder we get stick from other clubs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Did the owners of the remaining 4% HAVE to sell? Was there an option for them to keep their shares ? No say in the matter, Randy was buying them back, and thats that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegiddygambler Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The threat of a new owner being WORSE isn't a valid reason not to criticise Lerner. If the "Pro Lerner" fans can't catergorically state that they know that the following isn't true and PROVE why then do. ****He spent MILLIONS more than he should have done. He deeply regrets it, instead of facing up to his own gaffe at seeing his personal wealth depleted due to his own idiocy, VILLA have had to do an about turn and become a new Leeds United**** What he should have done IMO: After his grieving process of spunking his wealth...said **** me I won't be doing that again! I'll run the club more cautiously and eventually, at least when I sell, I'll get most, if not all, of the cash I squandered. What he has done IMO: SHIT! Where has all my money gone? Oh no I want it back NOW. I'm gonna have to make Villa into a freak of a club that just SELLS, SELLS, SELLS! That, I believe, will get my £ back providing in can keep em up and get TV MONEY annually! I made this claim earlier about "doing an Ambramovich" and the only refutations were. A) I hadn't considered Man City emergence *The only significance of MCFC is that it probably brought clarity to his mind a lot quicker and his over spending ceased. It in no way dispells the claim that he was "doing an Abramovich". The other "refutation": His spending wasn't on par with RA *I know it wasn't on par with RA, as I said he didn't have the long term means to do that. That doesn't in any way mean he can't be "doing an Abramovich" in spending a vast amount of his own wealth. Again it doens't in any way counter what I am claiming RL has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 he point we all seem to be missing is that Lerner has not simply turned the tap off on spending because he cant afford it. Yes he may be nursing some burned fingers, but it's not as if he or the club are in any kind of financial trouble. What has become clear is that the level of spending was not sustainable, and even if it was it would be fruitless. We would need spending to exceed what it was at the height of the Lerner reign in order to establish ourselves as a regular top 4 team. On top of that the big clubs have moaned to UEFA that that chavvy Citeh have won the lottery and moved out of their council house into their street and they dont like it. The UEFA rules will affect the majority of clubs, Citeh may have just done enough just in time to fall the right side of the line when it is finally drawn, but even still there's talk in the club of reducing spending over the next few years to appease UEFA. Yes we can sit here and argue that wealthy owners can find ways too artificially boost income, but as we've seen with City the rest of the footballing world are going to make sure UEFA have a proper look at it, and we still have not heard the official UEFA findings into that deal. When the regs come in it may well be that the money receievd for the gound naming (well maybe not all of it) can be counted as an officvial source of income. The issue this all boils down to is the level of the club's income. Now Lerner is not to blame for that being limited to the level it is now, we have to look at our previous owner who failed to realise the significance of the PL, SKY and the CL. Lerner came in and had a pretty good go at forcing the issue, but in reality he was never going to achieve any long term gains based on the money available. It's funny how he's gone from the very model of a foreign owner to the worse owner ever and all he's really done is stop splashing the cash. Before it was oh look at the training facilities, look at the ground, the Holte pub, isn't our support of Acorns wonderful. Now it's all he's left us with is a decent training ground and a shitty pub. No wonder we get stick from other clubs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegiddygambler Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 he point we all seem to be missing is that Lerner has not simply turned the tap off on spending because he cant afford it. Yes he may be nursing some burned fingers, but it's not as if he or the club are in any kind of financial trouble. What has become clear is that the level of spending was not sustainable, and even if it was it would be fruitless. We would need spending to exceed what it was at the height of the Lerner reign in order to establish ourselves as a regular top 4 team. On top of that the big clubs have moaned to UEFA that that chavvy Citeh have won the lottery and moved out of their council house into their street and they dont like it. The UEFA rules will affect the majority of clubs, Citeh may have just done enough just in time to fall the right side of the line when it is finally drawn, but even still there's talk in the club of reducing spending over the next few years to appease UEFA. Yes we can sit here and argue that wealthy owners can find ways too artificially boost income, but as we've seen with City the rest of the footballing world are going to make sure UEFA have a proper look at it, and we still have not heard the official UEFA findings into that deal. When the regs come in it may well be that the money receievd for the gound naming (well maybe not all of it) can be counted as an officvial source of income. The issue this all boils down to is the level of the club's income. Now Lerner is not to blame for that being limited to the level it is now, we have to look at our previous owner who failed to realise the significance of the PL, SKY and the CL. Lerner came in and had a pretty good go at forcing the issue, but in reality he was never going to achieve any long term gains based on the money available. It's funny how he's gone from the very model of a foreign owner to the worse owner ever and all he's really done is stop splashing the cash. Before it was oh look at the training facilities, look at the ground, the Holte pub, isn't our support of Acorns wonderful. Now it's all he's left us with is a decent training ground and a shitty pub. No wonder we get stick from other clubs!! If you're still singing his praises when he takes us down...I'll doth my cap at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Makoun i'm not up on my smiley speak, what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 His point is that you're one of the few people on here that agrees with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you're still singing his praises when he takes us down...I'll doth my cap at you. So he should possibly threaten the future of the club by spending on new manager and new players that the fans agree with, basically ones that are flavour of the month? Dont believe the doom merchants peddling their sly nasty little comments, if Villa are relegated it would be a terrible terrible thing. But the world wont end, as soon as the season finishes Villa Park wont just suddenly disappear into the ground. There will still be a club to support, you know like all the other 100s of clubs and fans that support clubs outside the premier league. Are they all permanently depressed because they are not in the premier league? Not celebrating goals or wins, in fact not even watching or supporting, because its SOOOO bad? We'll be threatened with not enough finances? Really so all the penny pinching currently is for what reason again? Fans in particular not just Villa fans are obsessed with money and the premier league. When in reality over 3 quarters will no doubt never get to see their team in the holy land of the top 4. To the everyday fan there is not too much difference to finishing 6th to finishing 17th. The increased money based on place finished might help a little but not enough to get to the holy land. Might be enough to sign a slightly better player, who if is too good will be snapped up by a club with too much money. If you finish 5th or 6th your in a european competition everyone moans about because its a bit shit and you have to play all your league games on a Sunday. The world of football is not just this one league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you're still singing his praises when he takes us down...I'll doth my cap at you. Ok, but what has he done that the vast majority of other owners wouldn't have done. None of us like McLeish but who was the alternative, McLaren? Perhaps he should have continued spending but how much is enough? Should he just ignore the UEFA regs in the hope that they'll go away? I honestly dont get the level of hatred shown towards him on here. I'm not saying there aren't better owners out there but there's also a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... From the first team squads point of view I think we arent any better off than Ellis' last season. There are certainly a damn sight more young kids making up our first team squad than ever before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you're still singing his praises when he takes us down...I'll doth my cap at you. Ok, but what has he done that the vast majority of other owners wouldn't have done. None of us like McLeish but who was the alternative, McLaren? Perhaps he should have continued spending but how much is enough? Should he just ignore the UEFA regs in the hope that they'll go away? I honestly dont get the level of hatred shown towards him on here. I'm not saying there aren't better owners out there but there's also a lot worse. Whilst I share your sentiments on Lerner, I dont agree with other areas of your post. You make it sound like McLeish was our only option, whereas there were far more suitable candidates out there both at home and abroad. Even if you take Martinez and MacLaren out of the equation, there were plenty of much, much better options than the clown we eventually employed. UEFA regs are pish, UEFA are the governing body but everyone knows that the clubs hold the power. Man City just stamped all over the bullshit regs with their ground naming deal. Everyone can see it for what it is, what can UEFA do? Lerner has done a wealth of good things with the club, BH is state of the art but where he and the club lets itself down is where it matters most, on the football side. McLeish was never, ever going to work, even through the most claret and blue tinted spectacles and his appointment was an abomination which is why the fans have turned on RL. There is no vision, no philosophy and no long term future with him in charge. Personally, I believe Lerner is the Captain so he takes some of the flak, but Paul Faulkners hand is on the tiller and I rate him personally responsible for what happened with ONeill, Houllier, McLeish and the general direction of the club as a business. If heads should roll, Faulkners should be first on the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... Because if he spent shit loads of money next month, on players a new manager a new chief ex he would be a brilliant owner again! Without a doubt. As stanthemanisgod was saying everyone was quite happy for him to improve the training ground and other bits and bobs along with employ o'neill and buy players. Now this is not happening, all his actions good or bad are just shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... From the first team squads point of view I think we arent any better off than Ellis' last season. There are certainly a damn sight more young kids making up our first team squad than ever before. But does that not come down to money, be it on transfer fees or wages? A better squad costs more money, a better manager will want more money to spend, better players will want more wages, better scouts want more money. In the PL it all comes down to money, you might be able to sign the odd gem on the cheap but it costs money to keep good players in a side. All of the other stuff, the lack of communication, the fact he's not at the ground, Faulkner etc wouldn't be discussed on here to the level it is if he was still spending money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... Because if he spent shit loads of money next month, on players a new manager a new chief ex he would be a brilliant owner again! Without a doubt. As stanthemanisgod was saying everyone was quite happy for him to improve the training ground and other bits and bobs along with employ o'neill and buy players. Now this is not happening, all his actions good or bad are just shit! Because if he appointed a new manager a new chief ex it would at least show he understood where the problems lie and would be showing a desire to sort it out. If its just about spending money how come most fans would want any money availble in January (if any) would prefer it to be spent on getting a new manager who could get more out of the players we already have rather than give our current manager it to buy a player or two..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... Because if he spent shit loads of money next month, on players a new manager a new chief ex he would be a brilliant owner again! Without a doubt. As stanthemanisgod was saying everyone was quite happy for him to improve the training ground and other bits and bobs along with employ o'neill and buy players. Now this is not happening, all his actions good or bad are just shit! Because if he appointed a new manager a new chief ex it would at least show he understood where the problems lie and would be showing a desire to sort it out. If its just about spending money how come most fans would want any money availble in January (if any) would prefer it to be spent on getting a new manager who could get more out of the players we already have rather than give our current manager it to buy a player or two..... What if he can not afford to do so though? Get the club into masses to debt to please some fans, who will then moan about us being in masses of debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So if I own a business that is going down the pan because of poor management are you seriously suggesting that I should let it carry on because it might cost me some money I didnt really want to spend........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do some fans think the criticism that Lerner is getting now is solely because he has turned the financial tap off..... Because if he spent shit loads of money next month, on players a new manager a new chief ex he would be a brilliant owner again! Without a doubt. As stanthemanisgod was saying everyone was quite happy for him to improve the training ground and other bits and bobs along with employ o'neill and buy players. Now this is not happening, all his actions good or bad are just shit! Because if he appointed a new manager a new chief ex it would at least show he understood where the problems lie and would be showing a desire to sort it out. If its just about spending money how come most fans would want any money availble in January (if any) would prefer it to be spent on getting a new manager who could get more out of the players we already have rather than give our current manager it to buy a player or two..... What if he can not afford to do so though? Get the club into masses to debt to please some fans, who will then moan about us being in masses of debt? Lerner has already spent a load of money recifiying his mistakes. Firstly on O'Neill, then on Houllier as well. Not forgetting him prising McLeish away from small heath. If figures are to be believed then that is around £9 million on his own mistakes (or Faulkner's). This is no way to run a club at all, by all means there can be managers that don't suit certain clubs and it doesn't work out, however the vast majority could see that McLeish was never going to work and went through with it anyway. The way the club is being run at the moment just isn't sustainable financially, so I don't think Lerner is tightening the purse strings to good effect tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So if I own a business that is going down the pan because of poor management are you seriously suggesting that I should let it carry on because it might cost me some money I didnt really want to spend........... How do you know its going down the pan, have we been relegated or gone out of business or even close too? You only think its going down the pan because you dont like the manager or chief exec. Again, if Lerner listened to the fans, there would be a new set of players and a new manager every week! You just cannot keep changing things so soon, because the fans have decided it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Team not performing on the pitch. Attendances not at the level they were 2 years ago. Unpopular Manager with fans. Sustained Losses during Lerners time as owner. Yep that sound pretty fecking rosey doesnt it. If we keep McLeish this will only end up one way, you might be happy with that but a good many of us a far from happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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