Mantis Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games. Its where he came from. Im happy to admit that. It is afterall one of the biggest rivilries in football. I'm not so sure about that. The opposition to McLeish was because he was shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I guess the key difference for me is that when McLeish was the manager I actually believed that our squad was a lot better than it is. Now I look at every player bar Benteke and I think they're all pretty average. So I guess I kinda owe McLeish an apology.... but I also think Lambert is a very poor manager too. And changing him will not make a difference to our problems, though i actually think he will walkout at the end of the season. Then who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games. Its where he came from. Im happy to admit that. It is afterall one of the biggest rivilries in football. I'm not so sure about that. The opposition to McLeish was because he was shit. That fact never helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games. Its where he came from. Im happy to admit that. It is afterall one of the biggest rivilries in football. I'm not so sure about that. The opposition to McLeish was because he was shit. This was because he was the Birmingham manager and it happened before he'd even stepped into the dugout for the first time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Well that puts our defeat against Bradford over 2 legs into perspective! 5-0 Watching that today i struggle to see how on Earth we lost against them? they were shockingly bad. That was a practice session for Swansea today.. how embarrassing that we actually lost to that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games. Its where he came from. Im happy to admit that. It is afterall one of the biggest rivilries in football. I'm not so sure about that. The opposition to McLeish was because he was shit. This was because he was the Birmingham manager and it happened before he'd even stepped into the dugout for the first time: >>>Well that puts our defeat against Bradford over 2 legs into perspective! 5-0 Watching that today i struggle to see how on Earth we lost against them? they were shockingly bad. That was a practice session for Swansea today.. how embarrassing that we actually lost to that side. Edited February 24, 2013 by pacbuddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games. Its where he came from. Im happy to admit that. It is afterall one of the biggest rivilries in football. I'm not so sure about that. The opposition to McLeish was because he was shit. This was because he was the Birmingham manager and it happened before he'd even stepped into the dugout for the first time: No it was because he had a shit record. I'm well aware of the protests but what do you expect when the club try and hire a manager with a history of relegations and shit football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) I think it's bizarre that one manager gets absolutely slaughtered by fans for doing a shit job under poor circumstances but another manager who does even worse under similar circumstances still gets his name sung at games.i guess it depends upon whether a) you think Mcleish and Lambert are of similar standard, similar records - I don't i think lambert is the better manager and b ) more importantly whether or not you think the club post Mcduff was in a similar situation Pre Mcduff ( ie whether or not the circumstances are similar for both managers). See I think lambert is working under far worse conditions and a bit of that is because he is following the utter shambles that was Mcleish. Edited February 24, 2013 by Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) There is no doubt about it that Mcleish was slaughtered partly because of his links to Birmingham. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Yes his record and all round personality wasnt pleasing either, but no one can deny that his previous club didnt have an effect on emotions. For me there are two differences between Lambert & Mcleish. Firstly (although this is diminishing very quickly indeed) - I still believe Lambert has the potential to be a top class manager. Sort his woeful work in the transfer market out, and be a bit more pragmatic - and I think we could have a really good guy on our hands. Secondly, and most importantly - I realized by Mcleish (and Im horrified that people seem to still not realise) that we aint getting anyone who is better! The list of potential managers is always absolutely shocking. We pull our noses up at Champions League winning managers, managers who have taken Middlesbrough (Middlesbrough!!!) to the Europa League final. No there not perfect or my preference either - but there at a higher level than our club is at the minute by a good margin. For me, the vast majority of our fan base lost all sense of reality some time back. Edited February 24, 2013 by Woodytom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 There is no doubt about it that Mcleish was slaughtered partly because of his links to Birmingham. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Yes his record and all round personality wasnt pleasing either, but no one can deny that his previous club didnt have an effect on emotions. For me there are two differences between Lambert & Mcleish. Firstly (although this is diminishing very quickly indeed) - I still believe Lambert has the potential to be a top class manager. Sort his woeful work in the transfer market out, and be a bit more pragmatic - and I think we could have a really good guy on our hands. Secondly, and most importantly - I realized by Mcleish (and Im horrified that people seem to still not realise) that we aint getting anyone who is better! The list of potential managers is always absolutely shocking. We pull our noses up at Champions League winning managers, managers who have taken Middlesbrough (Middlesbrough!!!) to the Europa League final. No there not perfect or my preference either - but there at a higher level than our club is at the minute by a good margin. For me, the vast majority of our fan base lost all sense of reality some time back. Why did the Forest fans hate his appointment then? I have been on their forums and there is **** all mentioning his link to SHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 McLeish coming from Birmingham was only a minor factor. He wasn't wanted here because he had an absolutely shit record of relegation and dire defensive football. The Birmingham thing is mostly a myth peddled by the media. As for Lambert, what has he actually done here to show that he's a good manager? Tactically he's absolutely hopeless and he doesn't seem to be that good in the motivation department either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 McLeish coming from Birmingham was only a minor factor. He wasn't wanted here because he had an absolutely shit record of relegation and dire defensive football. The Birmingham thing is mostly a myth peddled by the media. As for Lambert, what has he actually done here to show that he's a good manager? Tactically he's absolutely hopeless and he doesn't seem to be that good in the motivation department either. Basically his previous records Mantis. I dont believe you can be so good with other teams, and so bad with us. Obv managers work better at different clubs but not to this ridiculous scale. That leads me to believe there are the same underlying problems that we had under previous management. Mainly, the players who I don't believe take anywhere near enough responsibility across the board of football. As for motivation - He seems to be able to motivate Andi Weimann? Why is that? Is it because people are motivated by different things? Maybe! Though I don't believe there is a diverse enough environment within a football team for that to really matter. They all aiming for the same goal - (by that I mean achievement). Do they really need it pointing out to them? My view is simply that they cant be **** arsed. Now, before you say in football there is fine margins where the managers motivation skills prove vital - I agree. But not at the level that we are at. We havnt even got 11 players who look half interested and for me thats a disgrace. 11 Andi Weimanns and we are not in this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The only club where he's got a good previous record is Norwich, We've seen time and time again that sometimes managers just aren't good enough to step up to the bigger clubs. Just becuase Lambert was good with Norwich doesn't mean he's going to be automatically good with us. As it turns out he's been dreadful so far. So he can motivate Weimann, but what about the other players? Football isn't all about motivation but Lambert's still doing a piss poor job at it. We've looked gutless many times this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 The only club where he's got a good previous record is Norwich, We've seen time and time again that sometimes managers just aren't good enough to step up to the bigger clubs. Just becuase Lambert was good with Norwich doesn't mean he's going to be automatically good with us. As it turns out he's been dreadful so far. So he can motivate Weimann, but what about the other players? Football isn't all about motivation but Lambert's still doing a piss poor job at it. We've looked gutless many times this season. Im not necessarily saying he is able to motivate Andi and that he should be applauded. What I am saying is - why are we pointing the finger at the manager when the players are clearly capable of motivating themselves - as shown by Weimann? There grown adults for goodness sake. The attitude of our players over the last 3 years has been nothing short of an utter disgrace. An embarrassment! And there still getting away with it???????? Were still blaming the manager? Were still saying Gabby bleeds claret and blue?? HE CLEARLY DOESNT. The manager is there to get the best out of players. But they have to take some responsibility themselves. Its Monday morning at Carrington. Robin Van Persie cant be arsed. Do you really think SAF would be sat there mulling over ways to motivate him. I think not. Hed be out the door alas Bent, Ireland etc. From top to bottom, football has lost all sense of reality. While we keep calling for the manager to go - the players will continue with this untouchable attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandaq Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I don`t really know what I think of him anymore. A lot of the subs and tactics baffles me, but so does the players. I don`t even know if it`s him or them, or a mix of both. Do I believe he is and become a great manager here? Not so sure, I know he has what it takes to become it, but if he can do it over here is another question. Maybe this isn`t the right club for him? Don`t know. A lot of the players have let me down on several occasions, but so has he. I do wonder how it would look if we stayed up and he had another season. Had a big budget on like 30+ and bringing in some fresh faces in here. We really need it, no matter what the manager situation will look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Watching Swansea demolish Bradford today showed what a piss poor job Lambert did tactically with Villa over 2 matches against Bradford. He is clueless as a manager, and I am sure that some on VT especially just "support" him to try and save face because of what they have posted before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Watching Swansea demolish Bradford today showed what a piss poor job Lambert did tactically with Villa over 2 matches against Bradford. He is clueless as a manager, and I am sure that some on VT especially just "support" him to try and save face because of what they have posted before. 'Nail on the Head'. Our inability to deal with a fourth tier team over two legs is a reflection on the manager and the manager alone. Lerner is a useless owner but the failings on the pitch against Bradford (twice) were solely down to Lambert and his inability as a manager. Those that continue to show him support may well be doing so just to 'Save Face' as you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Watching Swansea demolish Bradford today showed what a piss poor job Lambert did tactically with Villa over 2 matches against Bradford. He is clueless as a manager, and I am sure that some on VT especially just "support" him to try and save face because of what they have posted before. 'Nail on the Head'. Our inability to deal with a fourth tier team over two legs is a reflection on the manager and the manager alone. Lerner is a useless owner but the failings on the pitch against Bradford (twice) were solely down to Lambert and his inability as a manager. Those that continue to show him support may well be doing so just to 'Save Face' as you put it. There werent 11 players out there then? There wasnt an international defender losing his man in the box? Was that Lamberts tactics? There wasnt an international striker missing an open goal from 2 yards at Valley Parade - was that Lamberts tactics? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Watching Swansea demolish Bradford today showed what a piss poor job Lambert did tactically with Villa over 2 matches against Bradford. He is clueless as a manager, and I am sure that some on VT especially just "support" him to try and save face because of what they have posted before. 'Nail on the Head'. Our inability to deal with a fourth tier team over two legs is a reflection on the manager and the manager alone. Lerner is a useless owner but the failings on the pitch against Bradford (twice) were solely down to Lambert and his inability as a manager. Those that continue to show him support may well be doing so just to 'Save Face' as you put it. There werent 11 players out there then? There wasnt an international defender losing his man in the box? Was that Lamberts tactics? There wasnt an international striker missing an open goal from 2 yards at Valley Parade - was that Lamberts tactics? Yes, the 11 players that Lambert selected (some of which he purchased). So, is that you lay the blame for failing to get past the mighty Bradford at the feet of the players and Lambert is totally blameless then or are you just trying to 'Save Face'. Intrigued to know which! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Watching Swansea demolish Bradford today showed what a piss poor job Lambert did tactically with Villa over 2 matches against Bradford. He is clueless as a manager, and I am sure that some on VT especially just "support" him to try and save face because of what they have posted before. 'Nail on the Head'. Our inability to deal with a fourth tier team over two legs is a reflection on the manager and the manager alone. Lerner is a useless owner but the failings on the pitch against Bradford (twice) were solely down to Lambert and his inability as a manager. Those that continue to show him support may well be doing so just to 'Save Face' as you put it. There werent 11 players out there then? There wasnt an international defender losing his man in the box? Was that Lamberts tactics? There wasnt an international striker missing an open goal from 2 yards at Valley Parade - was that Lamberts tactics? Yes, the 11 players that Lambert selected (some of which he purchased). So, is that you lay the blame for failing to get past the mighty Bradford at the feet of the players and Lambert is totally blameless then or are you just trying to 'Save Face'. Intrigued to know which! Save Face of what?? Maybe my comments that I think Lamberts the worst manager out of the previous four in the transfer market? Maybe the comments that he was never my first choice? - Do you think Im saving face of them??. Where did I say Lambert was totally blameless?? Id love you to seek any post where I dont acknowledge Lerner/Lamberts weaknesses?? Your the one with the unbalanced opinion that only lays blame on 1 person. Is that because you are saving face with regards to the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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