Kwan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Deulofeu has a 2nd year option apparently and I can see Barry staying there since he doesn't play a part in City, but no way they keep Lukaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think we should at least wait until the end of the season until reading too much into the playing style. It's already been said that Lambert changes things around quite a lot and I think this season needs to be taken in the wider context. The two biggest problems last season were the fact that we were in a relegation battle and a very leaky defence. This is purely my opinion but I firmly believe that in Lambert's mind this season has always been about sorting out the defence and consolidating our position in mid-table. We may start to see a more expansive game towards the end of the season when our place in mid-table will hopefully be all but guaranteed. I also don't think we've been helped this season by constant injuries and a loss of form in our front 3. I just think it's too early to be getting worried about the style of play - and this is coming from somebody who hates long ball. If we finish mid-table this season and strengthen next summer and still play the same type of football then I'll start to get worried. What do you mean, walked in to ? This has been worked on ( with little money or self generated) for years by Moyes...they have just appointed someone who can carry it on. "It " being the operative word...."good work" Walked into - as in joined. Martinez didn't need to start from scratch like Lambert did here. That is my very point.... if Martinez in the equation is confusing things fast track back to before Martinez, back to Moyes. My arguement is centred around the recruitment and player development. Everton are a similar model to ours.....big club, got no money. I'm not pointing fingers at who is fault ...it could be more than one person. Simply saying that I think a team like ours ,Everton are making a much better fist of humble resources. I don't think Lambert is to blame here really. The club was run pretty poorly by both managers and chairman right up until Lambert joined. Even now we're still recovering from years of mismanagement. If we have many years of stability like Everton had with Moyes then I think things will be a lot better for the next manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Lukaku will cost them 30mill plus, Chelsea paid around 18million to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Deulofeu has a 2nd year option apparently and I can see Barry staying there since he doesn't play a part in City, but no way they keep Lukaku Possibly, but if Deulofeu plays as he has been recently then there's nothing to say a bigger team coming in for him permanently with no financial gain for Everton and, if Man City are subsisdising Barry's wages, would Everton be able to afford him other than on loan again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Deulofeu has a 2nd year option apparently and I can see Barry staying there since he doesn't play a part in City, but no way they keep Lukaku Possibly, but if Deulofeu plays as he has been recently then there's nothing to say a bigger team coming in for him permanently with no financial gain for Everton and, if Man City are subsisdising Barry's wages, would Everton be able to afford him other than on loan again? If Everton qualify for the Champions League by finishing 4th, they'll receive a huge amount in merit money from the new TV deal, and also if they qualify for the group stages of the CL they'll get big bucks from that as well. So yes, they might well be able to afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I just think our midfield is seriously lacking. It's not that they're bad players, I rate Westwood, Delph and KEA. But they're all pretty much the same sort of player. Deep lying passers without much creativity going forward. So if we play 3 of them, naturally we get that split between midfield and attack, and that's killing us at the moment. That's why the defenders are hoofing it forward, and that's why even when Benteke gets on the end of them, there's rarely anyone waiting in the hole for his knockdown. Thats a fair point Stevo and i totally agree that the balance is wrong which i have been banging on about for some considerable time now. I also think that Delph and Westwood are decent but do they have the same ability as Petrov, Milner or Barry and so far one would have to say no. So what we have at the moment is an unbalanced midfield with players of average ability who presently aren't good enough to play the type of football to excite the fans but in the run in last season we did play that type of football so overall i'm a little perplexed as to why we haven't carried that same form into this season? Maybe BOF was right in a previous post where in his opinion he stated that the form shown in last season's run in was due more to nervous energy and thats why we haven't repeated it again this season as we are currently mid table? Certainly our performances this season have been flat without much flair or imagination and on Sky Paul Merson alluded to the same thing when he said we didn't have the ability to pass through teams so it might then explain Lambert recalling Albrighton and playing Kozak and Benteke up front to get service to the front men from wider positions. At the moment I still think Lambert doesn't know the best way for us to proceed and that has lead to indecison amongst his team selections even considering the injuries we've had and that has translated to the players. Lambert has been here nearly two years and he must now decide how we're going to play purchasing the players to fit the system rather than the opposite and thats why the purchase of Kozak still baffles me as i cannot see an international forward coming to a team who has had a flirtation with relegation to then sit on the bench as Benteke's understudy. Edited December 9, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I've produced more than enough evidence and so has Berbatov who has been a success with all the teams he has played for so let it go. Including 19th place Fulham??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think Delph and Westwood both have the potential to be in that sort of tier of player. But that's kind of irrelevant to my point. It doesn't change the fact that they don't really play the right position. It's like at the start of last season when I was saying Ireland should be in the team. It wasn't because ireland was good (because he really isn't), but it was because we didn't have anyone who could play that attacking midfield position. And we still don't. I don't know if one of those 3 midfielders is being asked to play there. But if they are, they're not really doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pembers Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Didn't Lambert say he came here with a 5 year plan? we're not even half way through that. As previously mentioned he probably envisions us being mid table for a few seasons whilst we gain stability and get something real to build on. I have no problem sitting in mid-table for the next couple of seasons if it means that in a few years time we will have a good squad of players that will challenge for more. We've already seen progress from when he first came in, yes the style of football hasn't been good but he's improved our defence since last year and built a team that has good fight and togetherness. Im sure we'll gradually see an improvement in style of play, if not this year, then next year. I'm sure he's well aware of what our problems are and what he needs to do to fix them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Deulofeu Barry Lukaku They're all on loans on wages we can't afford It's just a superior set up over the years there £50,000 a week = £2.5m a year. Multiplied by 3 = £7.5m, or one Kozak. I don't beleive Kozak was anything like £7m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 We are possibly the most inconsistent side in the Premier League We do not have enough quality in our side to see us finish off the shitter teams at the bottom of the prem We do not have a scott parker in midfield who can grab the game by the scruff of its neck and dictate things we are a soft touch and almost guarantee a win to any side who are in a poor run of form Its all well and good getting results against Man City and Arsenal but they do nothing put paper over the cracks Losing to the likes of Newcastle who were abysmal at the time, Fulham again who were abysmal at the time and drawing with sides such as Sunderland which was at home and felt like a defeat is not good enough Were always back at square one and its frustrating. Lambert has had a lot of transfer windows now to change his transfer policy and sign quality experienced players instead of youngsters but he has not. We could have Barry back but nope... Its either his judgement to blame or the board's for refusing to sanction funds for him to get these players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I've produced more than enough evidence and so has Berbatov who has been a success with all the teams he has played for so let it go. Including 19th place Fulham??? Who were struggling under Jol and where were we last season even when Benteke was playing well??? Let it go VillaCas there's nothing to see hear anymore just the ashes of your former mockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thats a fair point Stevo and i totally agree that the balance is wrong which i have been banging on about for some considerable time now. I also think that Delph and Westwood are decent but do they have the same ability as Petrov, Milner or Barry and so far one would have to say no. I agree with this - Petrov, Milner and Barry would walk into our midfield. Milner and Barry both had/have international quality. Whilst Delph and Westwood have got potential they are probably a level below this So what we have at the moment is an unbalanced midfield with players of average ability who presently aren't good enough to play the type of football to excite the fans but in the run in last season we did play that type of football so overall i'm a little perplexed as to why we haven't carried that same form into this season? I think injuries have played a big part this season. Benteke in particular was a ready target, always available and made a lot of space and made those around him look better. This season he has been a shadow of that. Weimann has been poor this season also. I felt for the midfield against Fulham as there seemed nothing "on" when they got the ball Maybe BOF was right in a previous post where in his opinion he stated that the form shown in last season's run in was due more to nervous energy and thats why we haven't repeated it again this season as we are currently mid table? I think injuries have been the main thing allied to a small squad. Also with the type of young, inexperienced player we have they will inevitably play in fits and starts. I don't think we were as great as people seem to remember last season either. I'm hoping for 50 points which represents only a small improvement on last season, not some major change. We've also got more solidity at the back which has bought us a better points haul so far, but maybe at the expense of some of the more expansive play from last year Certainly our performances this season have been flat without much flair or imagination and on Sky Paul Merson alluded to the same thing when he said we didn't have the ability to pass through teams so it might then explain Lambert recalling Albrighton and playing Kozak and Benteke up front to get service to the front men from wider positions. Agreed At the moment I still think Lambert doesn't know the best way for us to proceed and that has lead to indecison amongst his team selections even considering the injuries we've had and that has translated to the players. I don't think it is indecision, more lack of options - given the resources available our squad is thin. On Saturday three of our first choice back four were unavailable. Lambert has been here nearly two years (well not quite a season and a half) and he must now decide how we're going to play purchasing the players to fit the system rather than the opposite and thats why the purchase of Kozak still baffles me as i cannot see an international forward coming to a team who has had a flirtation with relegation to then sit on the bench as Benteke's understudy. I didn't fully understand the Kozak signing TBH - my guess is that Benteke will be off sooner rather than later (although not if he is as ineffective as he has been Lambert needs some support from Lerner - we need to bring in a couple of decent players in January, hopefully in the £5-£7m bracket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 We are possibly the most inconsistent side in the Premier League We do not have enough quality in our side to see us finish off the shitter teams at the bottom of the prem We do not have a scott parker in midfield who can grab the game by the scruff of its neck and dictate things we are a soft touch and almost guarantee a win to any side who are in a poor run of form Its all well and good getting results against Man City and Arsenal but they do nothing put paper over the cracks Losing to the likes of Newcastle who were abysmal at the time, Fulham again who were abysmal at the time and drawing with sides such as Sunderland which was at home and felt like a defeat is not good enough Were always back at square one and its frustrating. Lambert has had a lot of transfer windows now to change his transfer policy and sign quality experienced players instead of youngsters but he has not. We could have Barry back but nope... Its either his judgement to blame or the board's for refusing to sanction funds for him to get these players Having experienced players doesn't necessarily mean much. Fulham have tons of experience and look where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Deulofeu has a 2nd year option apparently and I can see Barry staying there since he doesn't play a part in City, but no way they keep Lukaku Possibly, but if Deulofeu plays as he has been recently then there's nothing to say a bigger team coming in for him permanently with no financial gain for Everton and, if Man City are subsisdising Barry's wages, would Everton be able to afford him other than on loan again? If Everton qualify for the Champions League by finishing 4th, they'll receive a huge amount in merit money from the new TV deal, and also if they qualify for the group stages of the CL they'll get big bucks from that as well. So yes, they might well be able to afford them. You're right and they'll have the luxury of spending when in the CL - as opposed to us when we spent and spent to try for CL qualification. Having said that, it's still going to be tough to finish above any one of Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal this term. I'd probably say that Utd are this year's Liverpool of recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Everton are good but I think they've been a tad fortunate. United carved out the better chances prior to the goal but once they went a goal down, they couldn't bring it back so have to credit Everton for that. Still, I don't think they'll finish 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Didn't Lambert say he came here with a 5 year plan? we're not even half way through that. As previously mentioned he probably envisions us being mid table for a few seasons whilst we gain stability and get something real to build on. I have no problem sitting in mid-table for the next couple of seasons if it means that in a few years time we will have a good squad of players that will challenge for more. We've already seen progress from when he first came in, yes the style of football hasn't been good but he's improved our defence since last year and built a team that has good fight and togetherness. Im sure we'll gradually see an improvement in style of play, if not this year, then next year. I'm sure he's well aware of what our problems are and what he needs to do to fix them. Christ not another one!! Look Rome wasn't built in a day and everyone realises that but we're nearly two years into yet another plan and we've been saddled with yet more poor players after spending 42m. The football is still atrocious and there really doesn't seem to be a pattern of play. Out of all our players at the moment Delph is showing the most potential with Benteke struggling and he isn't a Lambert signing so i'm not sure how much more patience needs to be shown since we haven't had a team to be proud of in a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Lambert has had a lot of transfer windows now to change his transfer policy and sign quality experienced players instead of youngsters but he has not. We could have Barry back but nope... Its either his judgement to blame or the board's for refusing to sanction funds for him to get these players It's like freakin' Groundhog Day......................Lambert would have loved to have signed "quality, experienced" players but he didn't have the money. He wanted Kiyotake, he wanted Sissoko (we enquired about him before Newcastle but were quoted £65k a week wages). He apparently would have liked Barry but didn't have the money The stick most use to beat Lambert with is why did he sign Kozak - I imagine that it was to replace a soon to depart Benteke and also as has been posted here by a reliable source the fee for Kozak is much less than reported At the moment Lambert is operating with one hand tied behind his back. Personally I think he has done a great job with such limited resources which is why he has my full support Lerner needs to help him out with a couple of decent signings in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 We are possibly the most inconsistent side in the Premier League We do not have enough quality in our side to see us finish off the shitter teams at the bottom of the prem We do not have a scott parker in midfield who can grab the game by the scruff of its neck and dictate things we are a soft touch and almost guarantee a win to any side who are in a poor run of form Its all well and good getting results against Man City and Arsenal but they do nothing put paper over the cracks Losing to the likes of Newcastle who were abysmal at the time, Fulham again who were abysmal at the time and drawing with sides such as Sunderland which was at home and felt like a defeat is not good enough Were always back at square one and its frustrating. Lambert has had a lot of transfer windows now to change his transfer policy and sign quality experienced players instead of youngsters but he has not. We could have Barry back but nope... Its either his judgement to blame or the board's for refusing to sanction funds for him to get these players We played some great stuff against Newcastle and were unlucky not to force the draw - just like against Chelsea. I'm curious how you refer to Newcastle as being abysmal 'at the time' like it was ages ago - when they're clearly a good side this season. Have they gone from shit to good in the space of a few weeks? Unless you also think the managerial staff have no impact on a team, it could also be argued that the Sunderland and Fulham sides we faced were different to the sides that dictated their league positions. We ARE inconsistent and this is what happens when you're a midtable team. You win some and you lose some. Out of interest, on paper where do you rank the quality of our squad. Personally, I'd rank it around 14th - 16th in terms of quality with only Norwich, Cardiff, Palace, Hull and maybe Stoke and West Ham having less about them than us. With that in mind, I think the manager's doing alright with what he has and needs time and more investment before we can carve out a decent style of play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Didn't Lambert say he came here with a 5 year plan? we're not even half way through that. As previously mentioned he probably envisions us being mid table for a few seasons whilst we gain stability and get something real to build on. I have no problem sitting in mid-table for the next couple of seasons if it means that in a few years time we will have a good squad of players that will challenge for more. We've already seen progress from when he first came in, yes the style of football hasn't been good but he's improved our defence since last year and built a team that has good fight and togetherness. Im sure we'll gradually see an improvement in style of play, if not this year, then next year. I'm sure he's well aware of what our problems are and what he needs to do to fix them. Christ not another one!! Look Rome wasn't built in a day and everyone realises that but we're nearly two years into yet another plan and we've been saddled with yet more poor players after spending 42m. The football is still atrocious and there really doesn't seem to be a pattern of play. Out of all our players at the moment Delph is showing the most potential with Benteke struggling and he isn't a Lambert signing so i'm not sure how much more patience needs to be shown since we haven't had a team to be proud of in a very long time. So what do you want? Lambert sacked and another manager bought in, and another 18 months rebuilding and another sacking then another and another? Everton are the exact model we should be following Lambert spent £40m (but probably closer to £30m) on a complete squad.....Southampton spent the same on three players last summer Thankfully, there is no chance at all of Lambert being sacked 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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