Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) We're not in a relegation battle this year... Premature. If that's premature then implying we're in one again in a relegation battle this season is totally wrong as things stand. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of a relegation battle because that could realistically happen to any team outside last season's top 7, but all signs so far point to a season of boring mid-table mediocrity, which I'm sure all of us would agree is an improvement on last season. Edited November 24, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Which club could Lambert realistically join in the near future? I cannot seriously think of one. A club that also works within a tight budget but one that wins a lot of trophies and takes part in the Champions League quite a lot - Celtic! That is not a long shot given the fact he played for them. If he really doesn't like working with big name players, and he got fed up of relegation battles year after year, he would be very well suited to Celtic. If Villa were in the Scottish league they would probably win plenty of trophies and be in the CL each year. The Scottish league has turned into a farce and i doubt any ambitious manager would even think twice about managing there. Sure Celtics existing manager embarrassed himself pre season by touting himself about every chance he got to prem/championship teams and didnt even get a sniff of a job offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I guess some of these transfers have sell on clauses or bonus payments that the bean counters like Faulkner count whereas the manager might just think about the initial outlay. Either way I think we have done some very good business and a huge amount of value has been added to the squad in a way I can't remember us doing before. Yeah - I would kinda agree with that..............whether it will amount to much on the pitch remains to be seen..... I'm 99% sure it will given another two or three transfer windows. I find it hard to believe that Lambert won't invest any profits wisely judging from the knowledge of European/lower league football he or his scouts seem to possess. I really don't see Lambert here for that many more windows. Impressive as his ability to assemble a team on a shoestring is - I don't see him wanting to do it for the rest of his career. I actually think Lambo is a better manager than Martinez or Rodgers - but he will need a degree of funding to prove that - Funding that he won't get under the current regime. Not sure about Lambert being better than Rodgers and Martinez. Rodgers and Martinez get their teams to play some nice stuff. As do we, it's just in patches and not consistent. They also haven't had to build a squad from scratch, introduce a new philosophy and do it all on a shoe string. Martinez couldn't even get out of relegation battles over a period of time, he has taken over a squad built by Moyes over 10 yrs and tinkered with it and was backed enough to add a bit of quality. He also bottled the challenge that lambert has taken on. Rodgers has been establishing his own philosophy for many yrs and inherited a squad where not a lot of work was needed and was also backed. Now I'm not saying Lambert hasn't made mistakes, he was bound to with the task at hand, but for me he has done more than OK. Shame his own fans can't see it and are quick to criticise. The fans can see it though V007. Everyone that i have seen on site has praised several of his signings and are well aware that he has been working within a very limited budget. Thats why last season even though breaking all the wrong records for the club the fans didn't turn on him at Villa park and few, cough, cough, asked for him to be sacked. However that still shouldn't admonish him from criticism and you have already admitted he has made mistakes, mistakes which very nearly relegated the club last season. In those circumstances therefore i believe most of that criticism was constructive and not negative just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 We're not in a relegation battle this year... Premature. If that's premature then implying we're in one again in a relegation battle this season is totally wrong as things stand. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of a relegation battle because that could realistically happen to any team outside last season's top 7, but all signs so far point to a season of boring mid-table mediocrity, which I'm sure all of us would agree is an improvement on last season. My bad. I read it as you saying that we won't be in a relegation battle this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Which club could Lambert realistically join in the near future? I cannot seriously think of one. A club that also works within a tight budget but one that wins a lot of trophies and takes part in the Champions League quite a lot - Celtic! That is not a long shot given the fact he played for them. If he really doesn't like working with big name players, and he got fed up of relegation battles year after year, he would be very well suited to Celtic. It would say a lot about Lambert's ambition if he went to Celtic in the near future, especially leaving a big premier league club to do so. Edited November 24, 2013 by GENTLEMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 It's just as premature to say we are in a relegation battle as it is to say we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 It's just as premature to say we are in a relegation battle as it is to say we're not. Yeah I didn't say it wasn't. I think both statements would be equally premature at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Which club could Lambert realistically join in the near future? I cannot seriously think of one. A club that also works within a tight budget but one that wins a lot of trophies and takes part in the Champions League quite a lot - Celtic! That is not a long shot given the fact he played for them. If he really doesn't like working with big name players, and he got fed up of relegation battles year after year, he would be very well suited to Celtic.It would say a lot about Lambert's ambition if he went to Celtic in the near future, especially leaving a big premier league club to do so. I wouldn't say we're a big Premier League club though. We are historically a big club but with our current owner's spending restrictions we will very rarely compete for a trophy and European football is a million miles away. Celtic might play in a piss poor league but they have a bigger stadium than ours and they host night's of football against teams that wouldn't even want to play us in a friendly. Also, he might just be a Celtic fan and dream of managing them one day, who knows. By the way, yes it did hurt hurt to say that we're not a big club. We are historically but not right now. Although, with the right kind of investment we could see a change in fortune one day - I hope! Edited November 24, 2013 by villarocker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You can make the argument that we're not a big club anymore but it's got nothing to do with spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 We're not in a relegation battle this year... Premature. If that's premature then implying we're in one again in a relegation battle this season is totally wrong as things stand. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of a relegation battle because that could realistically happen to any team outside last season's top 7, but all signs so far point to a season of boring mid-table mediocrity, which I'm sure all of us would agree is an improvement on last season. We will only be in a relegation battle if we take nothing from the next 4 fixtures, then we will deserve to be down there. At the moment the team is much tighter as a unit, which we were crying out for this time last season. I can't see us scoring a huge amount of goals, but I also can't see us letting slip many leads either. Simply put there are four or five truly awful teams this year, whereas last season there was only two. We are not one of the four or five truly awful teams, which is a start! There are enough winnable games coming up to put us comfortably in the top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You can make the argument that we're not a big club anymore but it's got nothing to do with spending. How do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You can make the argument that we're not a big club anymore but it's got nothing to do with spending. How do you mean? If we're not a big club anymore it's because we haven't won anything for ages or been that relevant - not because we're not spending huge amounts of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 For the record, I don't think we will finish in the bottom 5 this season. I said 12th or above to my mates and I am sticking with that prediction. My point was that Lambert might have ambitions to win something rather than settle for just avoiding relegation year after year. Celtic might win a one horse race but those players and everyone connected with the club do appear to enjoy what they achieve. I wish Lerner could find the funds to give to Lambert so that he could bring in his first choice targets for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You can make the argument that we're not a big club anymore but it's got nothing to do with spending. How do you mean? If we're not a big club anymore it's because we haven't won anything for ages or been that relevant - not because we're not spending huge amounts of money. I agree to a certain extent but, for me, one leads to another. Spending big is more likely to lead to winning things and then the "big club" status starts to return. Man City wouldn't be classed as a big club now if they hadn't won the title a couple of years back, and to win that title they spent around £250m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 The chances of us (or any other club for that matter) going on a Man City or Chelsea style spending spree in the future are very slim. It isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) No you (or anyone) probably can't think where he would go at the moment - there aren't any vacancies - but that changes quite rapidly. Given the funding he gets at villa - a club which looks a sideways step - may actually appear to Lambo. The board attracted Lambert to the club with the understanding that it was a long term project. I also think PL has been given decent funding and backing by the board. PL has been given the autonomy (within financial reason) to change the entire footballing side and build a team that supports his vision, I think this is quite rare for a premier league club and the board deserve some credit for taking the club in this direction. It will be interesting to see what transfer money will be given to PL and more importantly the type of player that will join us after this season. You can also assume that Lambert will spend more of the upcoming transfer funds on less players compared with the vast recruitment over the last few transfer windows, hopefully it will allow us to attract more established players. I do think we will be ready to show some ambition in the future. It would be illogical and a bad decision for Lambert to join a similar club; any vacancy would likely be vacated because of failure, Lambert would most likely have to start again under financial restrictions and rebuild another club. What is the point of him joining our club? Directly moving to a similar club would just prolong PL's career development and ruin what he has already started here. I do not see this occurring, I would be hugely shocked if it does happen. Lambert will leave for two reasons in my opinion. I can see Lambert leaving us, after a long tenure, for a perennial top four team with the resources to win major competitions, which would mean he has steadily transformed us into a successful outfit that is competing regularly at the top end of the league and for domestic trophies, similar to David Moyes' tenure at Everton. Or PL will be sacked or resign for failing with us. Which scenario is likely to transpire? We will begin to find out in the next eighteen months. I have faith PL can turn us around and get us back to where MON left us, maybe better than that. Edited November 25, 2013 by GENTLEMAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 First and foremost, Lambert has zero interest in managing Celtic or returning to Scotland. At this moment in time, he also has zero interest is being anywhere other than at Aston Villa. The reason he highlighted the figures for signings is simple and obvious - when you have no option but to try and land bargains on the cheap and people then claim they cost far more than they did then it doesn't provide fans with a clear picture of what is happening. To go out of his way to highlight the actual figures is clear he wants the fans to be well aware of what he is having to operate with just now. That doesn't mean he is unhappy at doing so - although there will come a time in the next year or so when he might decide enough is enough and he can't take the club any further on the limited budget. Thats interesting - i would call the next year or so pretty short term. I guess that means he won't be staying beyond his current deal Can you you explain why the club published accounts show a £21m gross expenditure on players - yet Lambert seems to be suggesting this figure isn't correct. As others have said i really can't see why Lambert is going out a limb to argue that a reported fee of £1.2 m - is in fact £800k - at either price its peanuts for a prem player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit there. He said "might". And Lambert coming out in a press conference and saying Bacuna cost less than the media are saying doesn't mean he's angling for a move. I think it's far more likely that he just want the facts out there, that and it makes him look even shrewder in the eyes of a lot of fans. I don't understand this obsession with Lambert leaving soon. He's given absolutely no indication of that so far. Edited November 24, 2013 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) First and foremost, Lambert has zero interest in managing Celtic or returning to Scotland. At this moment in time, he also has zero interest is being anywhere other than at Aston Villa. The reason he highlighted the figures for signings is simple and obvious - when you have no option but to try and land bargains on the cheap and people then claim they cost far more than they did then it doesn't provide fans with a clear picture of what is happening. To go out of his way to highlight the actual figures is clear he wants the fans to be well aware of what he is having to operate with just now. That doesn't mean he is unhappy at doing so - although there will come a time in the next year or so when he might decide enough is enough and he can't take the club any further on the limited budget. Thats interesting - i would call the next year or so pretty short term. I guess that means he won't be staying beyond his current deal Can you you explain why the club published accounts show a £21m gross expenditure on players - yet Lambert seems to be suggesting this figure isn't correct. As others have said i really can't see why Lambert is going out a limb to argue that a reported fee of £1.2 m - is in fact £800k - at either price its peanuts for a prem player And that is exactly what worries me. I do not want to lose Lambert but I feel we will. I honestly cannot see us breaking out of the "pick up players for peanuts" habit. We will sell for profit but that money will not be fully re-invested, whoever is in charge will be forced to shop cheap, time and time again. I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit there. He said "might". And Lambert coming out in a press conference and saying Bacuna cost less than the media are saying doesn't mean he's angling for a move. Actually he said "there will come a time..." then "when he might" So, that time WILL come (to leave) where he might decide that is the reason. Not that the time might come. Edited November 24, 2013 by dodgyknees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I read what he said thanks, but you've interpreted the meaning wrong. It means there will come a time where Lambert might consider leaving, which isn't all that surprising really since he's going to have to make the decision to sign a new contract or not at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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