blandy Posted January 24, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2013 You did say exactly what I quoted, yes. It most certainly reads like you dismiss the views of anyone who has a different view to yourself as either being due to them being unaware of something that you have the ability to see, or that as per your post above, their (my) opinion doesn't count. Arrogance, really, is what it looks like. I suppose everyone's view of lerner is "biased". though again that reads like you implying my view is wrong and worthless because I'm "biased", [unlike yourself, presumably] I'm biased as a Villa fan, towards my Club. I'm not biased to one person at the club over another because of anything other than my opinion on their merits, weaknesses and conduct over however long I'm able to judge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes I think some people are failing to see how bad our future could be under Lerner. Is that the only reason i think they disagree with me? No, did it say it was the reason people have a different opinion to me? No. Arrogance, I don't think so. Maybe like Richard a slight feeling of justification. I don't dismiss people's views for failing to see something I can see, I probably dismiss people's views who fail to actually see the simple evidence happening right in front of us. Thankfully i think the number of people who do this seem to be down to only a few fans on VT now. You've said the board deserve enormous credit if we stay up and you're not bothered if we're relegated. I don't think there's another poster on this board who feel the same about both statements. I think that's a ridiculously biased stance when it comes to your opinion of the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 24, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2013 Biased in what way? Where's the bias? and why do I have this bias leading to my view, and you none regarding your view? - what is my bias, as you percieve it, exactly, anyway? Being relegated wouldn't ruin my day, no. I want football to be fun, not miserable. And yes, if for example the Club does turn it round, I would give them credit for that. The club is in a mess, and it's their responsibility. If they sort it out, that will be their actions that do it. If they sort out the club, so wages are sane, costs are controlled, the CLub isn't dependent on 50 million from Randy just to pay for loses every year, and we are then able to start afresh, I'd be very pleased indeed. I don't want to go down, but being old enough to have seen us in the lower divisions before, I know it's not going to be the end of the world, far from it. My concern is more that the Club is able to look after itself. I know things don't look pretty, and I like it no less or more than you. But I'm not biased, I'm not incapable of seeing "the simple evidence happening right in front of us", thank you. I just look at that evidence and what it means differently. Glass half full or half empty. Oh and as for "a slight feeling of justification." you and Richard are welcome to that. I think it's unwarranted, myself, but have away with it, by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Can we add Ron Bendall to the choice? Otherwise i cant vote, because the other two options are like picking between Hitler and Stalin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Being able to look after itself. How will relegation help that? What if like zigic our big earners have no interest in leaving? How will missing out on a massive increase in tv money help us look after ourself? Years ago it may not have effected a clubs long term future as it would now, so while you've witnessed it before that doesn't fill me with any kind of hope that relegation would be anything but a disaster for this club. You say if we manage to turn things around you'd give the club credit, i take it you changed your words from giving the board credit to giving the club credit because you can now see how ridiculous that would be. We are in the mess because of the board, they added to that with the poor backing they offered the manager in the summer and so far have done nothing to assist Lambert in helping him turn things around. How could you possibly give the board credit if lambert keeps us up? Unwarrranted? Feel free to tell me what i've been wrong about since the day MON left? Edited January 24, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 24, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2013 Being able to look after itself. How will relegation help that? What if like zigic our big earners have no interest in leaving? How will missing out on a massive increase in tv money help us look after ourself? Years ago it may not have effected a clubs long term future as it would now, so while you've witnessed it before that doesn't fill me with any kind of hope that relegation would be anything but a disaster for this club. You say if we manage to turn things around you'd give the club credit, i take it you changed your words from giving the board credit to giving the club credit because you can now see how ridiculous that would be. We are in the mess because of the board, they added to that with the poor backing they offered the manager in the summer and so far have done nothing to assist Lambert in helping him turn things around. How could you possibly give the board credit if lambert keeps us up? Unwarrranted? Feel free to tell me what i've been wrong about since the day MON left? Relegation won't help. Obviously. I haven't said it would. I said I wouldn't be personally that bothered. It's not like anyone dies. It'd be sad for people who might get made redundant, it would be a bad thing for the club and other people. it wouldn't affect me. If the Club stays up, then all the people responsible will get credit from me, as well as criticism for where they've gone wrong, where I feel it's justified. I don't think anyone (me included) doesn't include the board amongst those responsible for the stae of the club, the good and the bad. Equally only a one eyed curmudgeo would not give people credit for where they do something good. It won't be Lambert keeps us up and the board takes us down, as you seem to be implying. It'll be they all take us down, or they all take us up. It's a team thing. Unwarranted sense of self congratulation. Absolutely. It's somewhat of a waste of time for me as someone whose opinion you don't count, because I'm (you claim) biased and all the rest of it, to go through all the things I don't think you're right about. But this thread is one where I don't think you're right, for one example (multiple examples actually). Plenty of people will think you're right, which is fine. It's a free world, but I wouldn't accuse then of not being able to see the obvious, of their view not counting, or any of the rest of your comments. We all see things in our own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 If the Club stays up, then all the people responsible will get credit from me, as well as criticism for where they've gone wrong, where I feel it's justified. I don't think anyone (me included) doesn't include the board amongst those responsible for the state of the club, the good and the bad. Equally only a one eyed curmudgeo would not give people credit for where they do something good. It won't be Lambert keeps us up and the board takes us down, as you seem to be implying. It'll be they all take us down, or they all take us up. It's a team thing. Their restrictions in the summer have played a part in making us worse than last year so how do you give them credit if we stay up? If they'd backed lambert with money during janaury to improve the squad then i could see the argument for giving them credit but so far they are just making it more difficult. What have they done to deserve any credit if we stay up? TBH i wouldn't give Lambert credit either, i don't think achieving the bare minimum is worthy of any credit. Yes you're right it is a waste of time. The evidence of whats happening at the club is plain to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Anyone want to argue we're better off? Anyone want to change their vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Lerner certainly pulling closer, but both are awful. Neither still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 25, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25, 2013 Anyone want to argue we're better off? Anyone want to change their vote? The vote is not about "are we better off". The vote is whether you would prefer Doug or Randy. And my answer remains unchanged: Randy in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 People have claimed we're better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaMac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) People have claimed we're better off. I feel we are better off now than we would have been under doug, hell, we probably would have been relegated a few year's ago under him. Not that I'm saying Randy's a fantastic owner either just better than doug. Edited January 26, 2013 by PandaMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 But you're guessing at what it would have been like under doug. Dougs last season to now? No comparison IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaMac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 In doug's last season we were on a downward spiral similar to what we are on now IMO. I think the huge scoreline's in some of the game's have made it look worse this season ( yes it's still really bad, I know ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Dougs last season we were under performing due to a shit manager. We were also in a position where it wouldn't take much to make things better. Right now we have a shit squad, a poor manager and it will take a lot to make sure we're a comfortable mid table team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaMac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Dougs last season we were under performing due to a shit manager. We were also in a position where it wouldn't take much to make things better. Right now we have a shit squad, a poor manager and it will take a lot to make sure we're a comfortable mid table team. It wouldn't of took much to make thing's better, so it's just as well Doug buggered off because he wouldn't have done much. Also we're only 3 signing's from being a mid table team. CB, LB and CM. Edited January 26, 2013 by PandaMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Again that's just you guessing. We sure that when Mon joined it didn't take much to improve us. We never looked this likely to be relegated from the prem under Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaMac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Again that's just you guessing. We sure that when Mon joined it didn't take much to improve us. We never looked this likely to be relegated from the prem under Doug. I do understand what your saying but your just guessing at what's going to happen this season. In that respect I think it's only fair to compare doug's last season to Lerner's last full season and If I'm honest I'd take last season as their was more potential to get better. It hasn't worked out like that so far but who's to say we won't be safe with 5 game's to go. Basically I'll judge them properly when the season's over but for now I'd rather have Randy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 It wouldn't of took much to make thing's better, so it's just as well Doug buggered off because he wouldn't have done much. Also we're only 3 signing's from being a mid table team. CB, LB and CM. Yes all three of those positions are needed but you seem to have forgotten 2 wingers so we can create propper chances and not just lump it through the middle, oh yea it also means you can play Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 For me the difference is that Doug Ellis was a chairman who always thought the fans were idiots and Randy Lerner is a chairman who the fans think is probably an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts