Deadly Doug or Randy Lerner

[Ron Burgundy]

Polarised views.......

[lexicon]

**** no. Hilarious revisionism.

[Big_John_10]

**** no. Hilarious revisionism.

Such as?

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Doug sold to Lerner, so I blame him for this

[PauloBarnesi]

Its not quite as clear cut as it used to be;

The last squad under Doug:

1 GK Thomas Sorensen 2 DF Mark Delaney 3 DF Jlloyd Samuel 4 DF Olof Mellberg 5 DF Martin Laursen 6 MF Gareth Barry 7 MF Lee Hendrie 8 MF Gavin McCann 9 FW Juan Pablo Angel 10 FW Milan Baroš 11 MF James Milner (on loan from Newcastle United) 12 MF Steven Davis 13 GK Stuart Taylor No. Position Player 14 MF Eric Djemba-Djemba 15 DF Ulises De la Cruz 16 DF Wilfred Bouma 17 MF Peter Whittingham 18 DF Aaron Hughes 19 DF Liam Ridgewell 20 FW Kevin Phillips 21 DF Gary Cahill 22 FW Luke Moore 23 MF Patrik Berger 26

FW Craig Gardner 30 FW

Gabriel Agbonlahor

The current squad:

N P Nat. Name Age EU Since App Goals Ends Transfer fee Notes 1 GK Shay Given 36 EU 2011 41 0 2016 £3.0M 2 DF Alan Hutton 28 EU 2011 34 0 2015 £3.0M 3 DF Stephen Warnock 31 EU 2009 97 3 2013 undisclosed 4 DF Ron Vlaar (captain) 27 EU 2012 15 0 2015 £3.2M Vlaar is team captain.¹ 5 DF Richard Dunne 33 EU 2009 111 4 2013 £6.0M 6 DF Ciaran Clark 23 EU 2009 67 5 2014 Youth system 7 MF Stephen Ireland 26 EU 2010 48 1 2014 £8.0M 8 MF Karim El Ahmadi 27 EU 2012 18 1 2015 £2.0M 9 FW Darren Bent 28 EU 2011 (Winter) 56 23 2015 £24.0M 10 MF Charles N'Zogbia 26 EU 2011 45 3 2016 £9.5M 11 FW Gabriel Agbonlahor 26 EU 2005 270 64 2015 Youth system 12 MF Marc Albrighton 23 EU 2009 80 9 2014 Youth system 14 MF Brett Holman 28 Non-EU 2012 23 2 undisclosed Free 15 MF Ashley Westwood 22 EU 2012 13 0 2016 £2.0M 16 MF Fabian Delph 23 EU 2009 55 2 2015 £8.0M 17 MF Jean Makoun 29 Non-EU 2011 (Winter) 11 0 2014 £6.2M On loan to Stade Rennais. 19 MF Stiliyan Petrov(captain) 33 EU 2006 218 12 2013 £6.5M Petrov is club captain.¹ 20 FW Christian Benteke 22 EU 2012 22 9 2016 £7.0M 21 FW Jordan Bowery 21 EU 2012 5 0 2015 £0.5M 22 GK Brad Guzan 28 Non-EU 2012 39 0 2015 Free Guzan re-signed this season.² 23 FW Nathan Delfouneso 22 EU 2008 44 9 2014 Youth system On loan to Blackpool. 25 MF Barry Bannan 23 EU 2008 74 2 2014 Youth system 26 FW Andreas Weimann 21 EU 2010 31 10 2015 Youth system 27 DF Joe Bennett 22 EU 2012 13 0 2016 undisclosed Exact fee is unknown.³ 29 DF Enda Stevens 22 EU 2012 (Winter) 8 0 2015 £0.25M 30 DF Eric Lichaj 24 Non-EU 2008 37 2 2013 Youth system 31 MF Chris Herd 23 Non-EU 2008 40 2 2015 Youth system 32 DF Nathan Baker 21 EU 2009 26 0 2014 Youth system 33 GK

Andy Marshall 37 EU 2010 0 0 2013 Free 34 DF Matthew Lowton 23 EU 2012 26 0 2016 £3.0M 35 MF Daniel Johnson 20 EU 2012 0 0 undisclosed Youth system 36 FW Graham Burke 19 EU 2012 2 0 undisclosed Youth system 37 DF Derrick Williams 19 EU 2012 1 0 undisclosed Youth system 38 MF Gary Gardner 20 EU 2011 17 0 2014 Youth system 39 GK Benjamin Siegrist 20 EU 2012 0 0 2014 Youth system 40 MF Samir Carruthers 19 EU 2012 3 0 undisclosed Youth system

Which you rather have?

We have spent the Lerner years turning a squad of good and mediocre players, into a squad with great players, good players and mediocre players, into a squad with mainly mediocre players?

[Richard]

As one of those actively engaged fighting Ellis I am at a loss to see why people are behind Lerner when we are clearly in a worse position than under Ellis

you and me both Denis, and I have been saying as much for three years

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

There's a lot of youth in both squads. It's just that this crop isn't as good as those produced back in the final years of Doug.

I'm pretty sure that the current squad cost more to assemble, too.

[briny_ear]

Only one way to vote as far as I'm concerned. Both awful. Yes, I feel like crying. In fact I am crying.

However, at least Deadly still attends all the matches which shows he [still loves the club/is so sad and lonely he has nothing better to do].

[lexicon]

Such as?

If Doug had stayed on, we most likely would have been relegated years ago and still be there now. He meant well in his own strange way but his penny-pinching and micro-meddling **** us over big time. Don't you remember the celebration when he sold up? Lerner has made a few mistakes here and there but is far, far better than Doug.

[peterms]

Sadly a dream that will never be fulfilled Peter :-(

Oh, I don't know.

Some discussion here about how much more widespread that model is in Europe compared to here.

I don't think we need accept that it just can't happen here.

[irishjay]

Doug sold to Lerner, so I blame him for this

QFT

[Big_John_10]

If Doug had stayed on, we most likely would have been relegated years ago and still be there now. He meant well in his own strange way but his penny-pinching and micro-meddling **** us over big time. Don't you remember the celebration when he sold up? Lerner has made a few mistakes here and there but is far, far better than Doug.

A few mistakes here and there? Haha that's putting it very lightly. Look at the utter mess this club is currently in.

We probably would have got relegated under Doug but we look more likely right now as opposed to Dougs last year. Do you disagree?

I remember the celebrations well, he was shit. Doesn't change the fact that Lerner is just as shit. I also think there would be celebrations if Lerner sold up in the summer.

[Neil]

you and me both Denis, and I have been saying as much for three years

I remember your original post you started, asking randy to back us or move over for someone who will. I remember how your post got absolutely slated, upon reflection everything you said at the time was right.

Perhaps you cursed it, and actually its your fault we are where we are

[Shillzz]

Would happily swap Lerner back for Ellis, atleast he showed some interest in the club.

What we had under Ellis was a very steady flow of modest investment. We were always begging out for an outside invester to come in and plough millions into the club, but the rollercoaster ride that Lerner has taken us on has left us looking like a complete train wreck. There's no way Ellis would have gambled the club's entire future on getting into the champions league, fair enough he probably wouldn't have even pushed for it, but he wouldn't just pull the plug on the club like Lerner has done either.

[lexicon]

A few mistakes here and there? Haha that's putting it very lightly. Look at the utter mess this club is currently in.

We probably would have got relegated under Doug but we look more likely right now as opposed to Dougs last year. Do you disagree?

I remember the celebrations well, he was shit. Doesn't change the fact that Lerner is just as shit. I also think there would be celebrations if Lerner sold up in the summer.

There's really no need to be so theatrical - utter mess? Yes, in terms of league position and the fact that we're in the middle of a squad rebuild but in other areas it really isn't that bad at all and in some areas the club has improved massively. There's no way we'd have one of the best training grounds in the country, a vastly improved sponsorship deal and kit deal or anything like that under Ellis - he was tight as a duck's arse and a lot of people didn't like doing business with him.

[lexicon]

Would happily swap Lerner back for Ellis, atleast he showed some interest in the club.

What we had under Ellis was a very steady flow of modest investment. We were always begging out for an outside invester to come in and plough millions into the club, but the rollercoaster ride that Lerner has taken us on has left us looking like a complete train wreck. There's no way Ellis would have gambled the club's entire future on getting into the champions league, fair enough he probably wouldn't have even pushed for it, but he wouldn't just pull the plug on the club like Lerner has done either.

I'll take rollercoaster over constant decline, at least there are some highs to enjoy.

And how the **** has Lerner pulled the plug on the club? He spent 20mil odd in the summer and is looking to spend further this window by all accounts. Ridiculous comment.

[AValon]

You never go back, simple as that. Besides, Dougs a bit of a dinosaur....and they're bloody extinct!

[Shillzz]

I'll take rollercoaster over constant decline, at least there are some highs to enjoy.

And how the **** has Lerner pulled the plug on the club? He spent 20mil odd in the summer and is looking to spend further this window by all accounts. Ridiculous comment.

We'll see come January 31st, but all the vibes coming out of Villa park suggest that Lerner won't invest in the playing squad to get us out of this mess.

Doug had 24 years at the helm, yes we were relegated after he came in, but he basically saved us from bankruptcy when he repurchased the club. So after wiping out the club's debts, he took us back into the top flight, and kept us there throughout the entire Premier League era, up to the point when he sold to Lerner. We were a solid Premier league club during this time, seeing more European nights than relegation fights.

Lerner has had 6 years, and has taken us to our most desperate state in a generation. If he were to stay here for 24 years I can be pretty confident in saying that we wouldnt be spending too many of them in the premier league, never mind Europe, finishing second or winning cups. No chance, we'd sink without a trace.

PS I should state that I fully recognise that Doug was no good for the club in the long run, that he screwed us over many a time etc. But as I say, give Lerner 24 years in charge and we'll be a far sorrier club than we ever were under Doug.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Shillzz

[lexicon]

Those good old tangible vibes eh? Both the manager and the press seem to disagree with you there.

You can romanticise Doug all you want,but he's been bad news since he dismantled and sold off our best ever team.

[Shillzz]

As I said, we'll see. My opinion is that he won't do enough to save the club, but if he pulls a couple of Premier League standard players out of the bag that are capable of dragging us out of this mess, then I will gladly admit to being wrong.

And yes, Doug was bad news, we all wanted him gone. But I don't think he'd have let the squad get into the mess that it is now, and hence is the lesser of two evils for me.