pacbuddies Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 No, your uncle would still be your uncle. Your aunt might have a bit of role confusion, though. Have you met her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 One thing is for sure Doug as a business man from where he started achieved more than Randy did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 One thing is for sure Doug as a business man from where he started achieved more than Randy did Yes Lerner is just a rich daddy's boy who ran two major sports teams into the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 in fairness to Doug he did invent the bicycle kick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 in fairness to Doug he did invent the bicycle kick And he, single handed, captured the Enigma code machine and won the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 Don't seem right does it - one canny businessman who micromanaged the club and made himself a fortune at the cost of our success and one dopey businessman who rarely visits and lost himself a fortune at the cost of our success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Don't seem right does it - one canny businessman who micromanaged the club and made himself a fortune at the cost of our success and one dopey businessman who rarely visits and lost himself a fortune at the cost of our success. Yes they are both complete **** ups! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Ellis loved the limelight so would give interviews all the time. I can remember on local news he'd be in his wood-panelled office, chewing on his glasses, talking about the 'Preeeemiership'. clearing in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 Thats actually very interesting blandy. Not doubting you for a moment but i was always under the impression that he did and can remember Ellis stating as such in the tabloids, or it actually being reported that he did say that. Where did you hear that he didn't use his own money to fund the Angel signing?It's not a case of "hearing" this or that, not a case of hearsay, but of verifiable fact Morpheus.Ellis, did, as I said, and you confirm, tend to give the impression that he was putting money in, without actually quite saying as much, but it's utterly untrue.For two reasons.1. the Plc. accounts show all money in and out - people can't just give a Plc (as the club was) money without it showing in the accounts. There would also be the personal tax liabilities resulting from that. I was a shareholder, and we'd be sent the accounts every year.The second reason is more straightforward. Ellis was not (until he sold his shares in Villa) rich enough. He was wealthy by normal terms - nice big house, Roller and so on, but his main source of income was for a long period, money he paid himself from the club - he was paying himself hundreds of grand a year, plus expenses for being Chairman. He was never in a position to be able to find 9 million quid to buy Angel - he never had anything like that amount of money. He eventually sold his Villa shares for about 24 million quid, to Randy and finally became proper wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Don't seem right does it - one canny businessman who micromanaged the club and made himself a fortune at the cost of our success and one dopey businessman who rarely visits and lost himself a fortune at the cost of our success. What success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 ...his main source of income was for a long period, money he paid himself from the club - he was paying himself hundreds of grand a year, plus expenses for being Chairman. ... I'm not sure why this matter is always referred to as some sort of crime. It was legitimate pay, I believe. After all, the chairmen of other top clubs also drew such pay and I believe the topmost clubs' chairmen took out a great deal more than Doug ever did and probably rightly so if their club achieved greater success. But Doug (I believe) never took out anywhere near as much as the chairman of Man U, for example. Though I've always said that I've never seen Doug as lilywight, he was not as bad as some have made him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have never said it was any kind of actual or metaphorical crime, John. It wasn't.But it is revealing that he was the very first to take pay, as soon as the rules were changed, and I believe he was one of those lobbying for the rule change.What I find a problem is the myth which he didn't exactly dispel, to put it mildly, that far from (legally) using the club as a means of very generous income for himself, he was some sort of benefactor.Once you are in essence a paid employee, then I feel the way you should be judged is in value for money you give. Certainly as a plc, that's the case, but even as an AIM listed company before that.That's where he fell down in my view. He just wasn't very good at his job, in my view.An additional point is that for the turnover, once the chairmen started paying themselves, collectively football boards were earning way more than their contemporaries in similar sized turnover businesses outside football. David Conn has written a number of books on the subject, and it's revealing how the likes of Ellis, Bates, and many others of that ilk, took the game and the Clubs way from the people and started to use them for their own enrichment and ego boosting. A trend that started off the down the path football is on now. Fans alienated, paying high prices, overlooked in favour of TV and Global audiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 He just wasn't very good at his job, in my view. Granted being only 31 means i didn't witness the early 80's under Doug but from my villa supporting life I'd say he was better at his job than Randy Lerner is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Doug Ellis dismantled a European cup winning team in record time and we unsurprisingly got relegated within 3 or 4 years of it. Then as he wasnt involved in the victory it was almost forgotten within the club. Think it was Gareth Southgate who was shocked that was no photos of it or any mention of it during his time at Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 Granted being only 31 means i didn't witness the early 80's under Doug but from my villa supporting life I'd say he was better at his job than Randy Lerner is. Thankfully Doug wasn't here in the early 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Thankfully Doug wasn't here in the early 80's. Yes my bad. I meant I wasn't really into football when we were relegated under him. So basing it on my time as a villa fan I think Doug was better at his job than Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think the times are different - Doug wouldn't have been able to be an owner now - he didn't have the dough. He didn't have the dough by the time he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Don't seem right does it - one canny businessman who micromanaged the club and made himself a fortune at the cost of our success and one dopey businessman who rarely visits and lost himself a fortune at the cost of our success. Well put. I would say this though. At least the fan's had a relationship with Ellis even if a love, hate one. We hated him, he loved himself. Doug would never gamble hence he broke my heart(you know what I mean) when letting Juninho go to Middlesborough for the sake of £1m - The biggest rick ever IMO. Countless times he proved to be a stubborn old bastard who more often than not didn't give a shit about the fan's. When I think about things and the way the club is now I though believe that although Ellis had his faults he gave more of a shit than Lerner after all Villa were his principle interest for many years, yet Lerner it appears got himself a toy and is now bored of it. We were under Doug's tenure very much like the Everton of now without the David Moyes. We were a tight ship, although lacking ambition not wanting to visit better places, instead happy doing day trips. Now under Lerner however we are a like a ship that was heading for sunnier climates(ChampLeague), got lost on the way(MON), hit an iceberg(GH), became rudderless(AM) and is heading straight towards the rocks(Championship). Worst of all the Captain(Lerner) has just jumped on the only helicopter and **** off with the officers(Krulak and Co) leaving the cook(Paul Lambert not steven segal!) and the washer-upper(Paul Faulkner) in charge. If anyone's wondering about lifeboats(plan B.) The Captain in his wisdom never thought we would need them after all he'd been on the journey before - silly bastard forgot though, he nearly sunk the last boat! Rough seas ahead on the HMS Aston Villa. Edited January 28, 2013 by avfc1982am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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