Hear Ye, Hear ye, Malc's having a knock again

[JohnCresswell]

By avfcinwales

'll make no disclaimer there's little point, the following will have the happy forum up in arms no matter what, so here goes.

O'Neill made a statement today or was it yesterday about he expects not to be able to sign all the players he needs in January, and may have to look to the lower leagues.

At the same time Roeder this week has said that despite all their recent past expenditure and their poor player injury situation they will be chasing quality players to help their push on.

More importantly Curbishley has come out and stated he fully expects to be able to get the top quality players and persuade them to come to Upton Park, in January.

Both upbeat statements of intent in my view far different from the negative comment as I see it from O'Neill.

Now we all know its not new, during Taylor's reign we repeatedly heard how he was going to find stars from the lower leagues to take us into Europe, how this along with the youth would make it so.

It didn't then, it won't now.

Ok I'm told when at Leicester and would you believe Wycombe, O'Neill found stars from nowhere, woopee dooo when was that, before Ellis took over Villa ?

Well I've got a news update friends we are out of the dark ages now, Ellis has gone, things have moved on, this is 2006/7 not 1985/2000 blokes like Abramovich, Magnusson own clubs, the corner shop mentality doesn't a European club make.

Nowadays its about top players, about real quality, about spending money, if you really want to become a top club that is, we all do don't we ?

Now I'm not saying Lerner will not spend money, and I'm not saying O'Neill is a useless manager but if Villa are to be a top club, we need both at their best and now.

This wait it will all happen philosophy reads well, especially at Christmas time, but the longer the club waits the further those willing to risk funds get further ahead of us and the harder the job is to catch up.

Times aren't as bad as under Ellis, no question, but Lerner's first real test comes now for January, an odd positive hint wouldn't go a miss either

[Condimentalist]

Its a fair article Malc.

What I'd say is that expectation levels are very very high amongst some supporters and the reality is that it's hard in January to get real quality in, regardless of what Ratboy and Curbishley have to say. They don't want people building up their hopes to be disappointed.

For me, it's the old adage of under promise and over deliver.

[bonse2000]

Ridiculous!I don't think some of our fans realise how lucky we are to have a manager of MON's quality and if it hadn't been for the takeover we probably would have ended up with Souness and gone down.Yes maybe O'Neils being a little pessimistic but so what, if he comes up with the big signings we are hoping for then it will be all the better.Under Ellis we were always promised much without anything actually happening, maybe under this regime it will be the other way round.To judge it now with little or no evidence is very much jumping the gun in my opinion.Also, on the point of MON finding quality in the lower leagues, whats wrong with that???Surely he shouldn't be criticised for it?!You can't spend £10 million on every player in you're squad unless you're Chelsea.

[Danwichmann]

I see your point, we can't get left behind now but it will be much harder than people think to do business in Jan and i think MO'N is just trying to expectaions realistic.

[sheriffvilla]

Would seem to me O'Neill is just 'playing it cute'.

Might be wrong, but that is how I see i.

[OklahomaVilla]

"an odd positive hint wouldn't go a miss".....?

Everything about this new regime is positive. I'm sure we are trying (just like Newcastle and West Ham) to improve the squad but other clubs aren't going to sell to us unless it benefits them. Regardless of how ambitious we are, why should Spurs sell us Defoe? Regardless of how much money we are willing to offer, there's no reason why a club in a similar position will let us have their better players. MON will prove to be decisive in this equation as I believe players will want to come and play for him.

Maybe you need to add a little more positivity to your posts?

[kingrollo]

Yep I agree - if o neils claims that he is going to plunder the lower leagues are taken at face value - then has the revolution really happened ?

After years of being a villa fan, I am sceptical - but for me - Villa have to land a top player in Jan - there can be no excuses - where there is a will - there is a way......

(other clubs will sign big names in Jan) ......

I can stomach much more 'maybe next season'

[JohnCresswell]

Yep I agree - if o neils claims that he is going to plunder the lower leagues are taken at face value - then has the revolution really happened ?

I'd say definately, yes. The money wasn't there before, it now has.

It's up to O'Neill to spend it wisely. If hes going to spend it on lower division players, then it's his choice, and on his head be it.

[Daholteend]

I am not going to worry about MON's signings until midnight January 31st. We will then be in a better position to comment on his successes.

Every manager has a "style" and some like MON know how to use the media as a tool. The key element to all our surmising is to understand that MON is going to invest wisely on behalf of Randy Lerner.

None of us should expect that money will be thrown at players over and above their potential value for Aston Villa. That kind of strategy is best left to the Risdales, TPMWSNLBMBN and Leeds United. We all know where Leeds United are placed today don't we?

[Jon]

Maybe you need to add a little more positivity to your posts?

well spotted Sir :winkold:

For me, it's the old adage of under promise and over deliver.

exactly - managing expectation levels. We all know that "some" Villa fans will be wanting expecting unrealistic players to be purchased in january.

Like you say, under promise and over deliver.

Unlike the previous incumbent, who under promised and under delivered ....

[OldFart]

I am not going to worry about MON's signings until midnight January 31st. We will then be in a better position to comment on his successes.

Every manager has a "style" and some like MON know how to use the media as a tool. The key element to all our surmising is to understand that MON is going to invest wisely on behalf of Randy Lerner.

None of us should expect that money will be thrown at players over and above their potential value for Aston Villa. That kind of strategy is best left to the Risdales, TPMWSNLBMBN and Leeds United. We all know where Leeds United are placed today don't we?

This TPMWSNLBMBN, wouldn't it be easier for you to write and easier for readers to understand if you simply typed O'Leary?

Sorry OF, this point looks a bit odd now! To stop the confusion, we've added it to the word filter

[blandy]

There's been a lot of postings about the squad's weaknesses, about speculation as to who we might bring in.

On the weaknesses it seems that a lot of folk think we need a right back, a left back, a right winger, a centre forward, a centre half, and maybe still a creative midfielder

To get all of that lot in, to find people available and of the necessary standard is no mean feat. In fact it's all but impossible, given that not every signing will come off, even if we get them in.

I accept completely Malc's point that while we have seen that the New Owner's words have been matched by deeds off the pitch, there has not yet been a chance for them to do the same with playing staff.

I'd be massively shocked if they didn't completely and fully back MO'N in January.

Perhaps there's an aspect in the statements of Roeder and Curbishley and others which should also be considered. Maybe they are talking up unrealistic expectations? They're at 2 clubs that are not performing as they would like. Perhaps come January all their words will come to nothing?

Will Newcastle in a takeover situation really be spending big?

Will West Ham, in a relegation position be able to get the players they want to go there?

Maybe it's managers trying to pressure their boards to back them? Maybe MO'N doesn't need to do that?

I don't know. Probably best to wait and see what happens and then form a view at the end of Jan as to how it's gone..

[avfcinwales]

Maybe its O'Neill playing down expectations Blandy because he's into this organic growth thing and doesn't feel he's under any real pressure, maybe there isn't the money available yet as expected, maybe the money for transfers has to be generated, maybe O'Neill doesn't have the balls to risk to deal with the big names in the game, maybe and maybe.

Me I like the General, he's positive, no talk of defeat, no talk of retreat, no talk of compliance, we are going for it now, Randy wants Villa to hold the European cup soon, we are going for it.

Beats all your organic stuff all your maybe's every time.

Me I'd die fighting for the cause, I wouldn't leave the trenches for a maybe

[Jon]

Maybe its O'Neill playing down expectations Blandy because he's into this organic growth thing and doesn't feel he's under any real pressure, maybe there isn't the money available yet as expected, maybe the money for transfers has to be generated, maybe O'Neill doesn't have the balls to risk to deal with the big names in the game, maybe and maybe.

maybe, and here's a real shocking theory, maybe the players MON wants will not be available during the January window and so he is preparing us for this fact?

Just a wild stab in the dark .....

[Digsby]

Maybe its O'Neill playing down expectations Blandy because he's into this organic growth thing and doesn't feel he's under any real pressure, maybe there isn't the money available yet as expected, maybe the money for transfers has to be generated, maybe O'Neill doesn't have the balls to risk to deal with the big names in the game, maybe and maybe.

Me I like the General, he's positive, no talk of defeat, no talk of retreat, no talk of compliance, we are going for it now, Randy wants Villa to hold the European cup soon, we are going for it.

Beats all your organic stuff all your maybe's every time.

Me I'd die fighting for the cause, I wouldn't leave the trenches for a maybe

MON will be accountable to everyone if he adopts the same aprroach as Gen.K.

Gen.K is accountable to nobody, in the scheme of things, if none of it happens.

[blandy]

Maybe its O'Neill... maybe and maybe...

Me I'd die fighting for the cause, I wouldn't leave the trenches for a maybe

Me, I'd feck off from the trenches on the first hint of a "maybe".

I mean who wants to live (or die) in a trench?

Silk sheets, a fleixible, lithesome lass, champagne (or a pint of ale, come to think of it)...nuther matter, but trenches- nah!.

I'm being daft, I know, but the point is that footy is about fun, pleasure, escapism, not trenches and death.

'tis all maybes, Malc. No-one can see into the future.

just enjoy the ride, so to speak.

[villab0y]

Maybe Roeder and Curbs made these comment as they both know they have players within their ranks that other clubs will be interested in, so by saying we're looking to bring in quality players, extend the aquad blah blah its a statment of intent, not just for the fans, but the players themselves.

Where as there aint exactly people knocking on our door for the likes of Hughes Baros or JLS.

[drat01]

VB how do you know that?

As Pete eloquently put it no one really knows what's going to happen. I must admit I am in the camp that would like to see a bit more positive statements coming from MON. DOL was moaned at by a certain bunch of people for negative comments whereas MON can seemingly say what he wants and its not viewed the same way.

For me the past few weeks have shown what DOL said before and what MON has said that the squad isn't big enough or good enough unless mediocrity is to be accepted as the pinnacle of our ambitions. The right players may or may not be available but what is certain is that this squad needs working on unless we are to accept that things will remain the same for 12 months or so

[Jon]

I must admit I am in the camp that would like to see a bit more positive statements coming from MON. DOL was moaned at by a certain bunch of people for negative comments whereas MON can seemingly say what he wants and its not viewed the same way.

Yeah but surely Ian we all gave the previous incumbent plenty of leeway in that 1st season?

It wasn't until we'd had 2+ years of excuses and downbeat patronising soundbites that it got a bit much for us, especially combined with bad results.

MON has made some realistic quotes. I wouldn't want him to come out with some unrealistic tosh which he then couldn't deliver.

[drat01]

Jon - Oh I agree and as I have said before its a Apples and Oranges situation now with the conditions that DOL and MON find themselves working under.

The club behind the scenes is doing a fantastic job with the old hearts and minds task and long may that continue. There comes a point where though that the fans will need convincing that the core product, i.e. the players, are improving in a similar way and that the product these fans are there to see is one worth watching and ticking all the right boxes in terms of what's expected.

Will that be Jan, will that be next summer? I dont know, a positive January will be absolutely fantastic for the fan base and will help in so many ways not only for this season but also in generating the necessary self funded revenue from next years season tickets etc