McLeish - Yes / No / Unsure

[irreverentad]

If McLeish got 6 points playing attacking football

This is about as likely as me waking up with Eva Mendes tomorrow morning.

No I wouldnt change my mind if we got six as it would leave on 22 points half way through the season and we should be on more. I think its more likely we will have 3 points from those games at a push

I am not saying it is likely.

I am just wondering on what he has to do to turn the fans around. Also how justified the level of criticism he is getting actually is.

[TrentVilla]

What position would you accept from him in the League, Trent?

No offense but it is a pointless question, I want him gone.

[Shillzz]

I've just had a scary thought.

If he does relegate us I wonder if the board will stick with him in the Championship due to his 'excellent' promotion record. That surely can't happen can it? Can you imagine how bad the atmosphere would be at that point?

Don't think there'd be one, sadly.

[irreverentad]

What position would you accept from him in the League, Trent?

No offense but it is a pointless question, I want him gone.

It isnt really a pointless question. It is just one you do not wish to answer. No offence taken!

The poll is whether he can take us forward. Surely League position plays a big role in that? :winkold:

[TrentVilla]

It isnt really a pointless question. It is just one you do not wish to answer. No offence taken!

The poll is whether he can take us forward. Surely League position plays a big role in that? :winkold:

It is a pointless question or at least it is directed at me for the reason I've given, I don't want him as our manager. Period.

That isn't because of the fact he managed Birmingham but because I simply don't think he is a very good manager and I absolutely hate the way his teams play football.

So it doesn't matter where we finish it won't change my stance thus it is a pointless question.

I don't think he can take us forward I don't think he will ever improve us as a club I don't want him as our manager.

[Qwpzxjor1]

If McLeish got 6 points out of the next 5 games (Bolton a, Liverpool h, Arsenal h, Stoke a, Chelsea a) playing attacking football, would people change their opinions on him?

Yes, I would, because it's the negative football which is turning me against him (I was willing to give him time at the start, but I'm really losing patience now).

This is the first time in my life I've really not been bothered about watching Villa games. I've always watched Match of the Day even when we've lost, even when we've lost heavily.. but now there are live games on TV and I find something better to do because I know it's going to be another scrappy unentertaining game. And at the moment I haven't even contemplated going to games this season, compared to always trying to go to 10 or so each previous season.

The last 3 Villa games have been 3 of the worst I've ever seen. We rolled over and surrendered to Spurs before it started, Swansea (OK, unusual circumstances meant it was never gonna be a thriller..) was just void of any highlights, and Man Utd comfortably beat us without getting out of first gear. I can't even recall a single really good chance for us in those 3 games.

I want to support the team, through thick and thin - but in the entertainment industry how can you still continue to like something you're not at all entertained by?

[irreverentad]

It isnt really a pointless question. It is just one you do not wish to answer. No offence taken!

The poll is whether he can take us forward. Surely League position plays a big role in that? :winkold:

It is a pointless question or at least it is directed at me for the reason I've given, I don't want him as our manager. Period.

That isn't because of the fact he managed Birmingham but because I simply don't think he is a very good manager and I absolutely hate the way his teams play football.

So it doesn't matter where we finish it won't change my stance thus it is a pointless question.

I don't think he can take us forward I don't think he will ever improve us as a club I don't want him as our manager.

Thats a pointless answer!

So if he got us in the Champions League or even won the League (impossible I know, but you did say it doesn't matter where we finish) you would still want him out? By the way who mentioned the Birmingham thing?

Surely results prove whether he is a good manager. I am not saying he is or he is not. But I find it laughable that fans of this club will not give a manager a season before judging them on the only thing that matters....results!

Who liked Mourinho's style of play? Still the Chelsea fans love him.

[pacbuddies]

but I think a couple of seasons of under performance should seal his fate.

A couple of seasons! Surely you jest!

[irreverentad]

If McLeish got 6 points out of the next 5 games (Bolton a, Liverpool h, Arsenal h, Stoke a, Chelsea a) playing attacking football, would people change their opinions on him?

Yes, I would, because it's the negative football which is turning me against him (I was willing to give him time at the start, but I'm really losing patience now).

This is the first time in my life I've really not been bothered about watching Villa games. I've always watched Match of the Day even when we've lost, even when we've lost heavily.. but now there are live games on TV and I find something better to do because I know it's going to be another scrappy unentertaining game. And at the moment I haven't even contemplated going to games this season, compared to always trying to go to 10 or so each previous season.

The last 3 Villa games have been 3 of the worst I've ever seen. We rolled over and surrendered to Spurs before it started, Swansea (OK, unusual circumstances meant it was never gonna be a thriller..) was just void of any highlights, and Man Utd comfortably beat us without getting out of first gear. I can't even recall a single really good chance for us in those 3 games.

I want to support the team, through thick and thin - but in the entertainment industry how can you still continue to like something you're not at all entertained by?

Fair enough I know the negative football was dire but all the managers we have had have played some games as bad. Gregory & MON definately did.

I am not an McLeish apologist, nor do I think he has done incredibly well. I just think some of the ire is a bit OTT at the moment.

[Bazdavies79]

but I think a couple of seasons of under performance should seal his fate.

A couple of seasons! Surely you jest!

If we appointed someone who you thought was great, how long would you give them before you got fed up?

[TrentVilla]

Thats a pointless answer!

No my points were perfectly clear you just didn't like them.

So if he got us in the Champions League or even won the League (impossible I know, but you did say it doesn't matter where we finish) you would still want him out? By the way who mentioned the Birmingham thing?

I'm sorry but I'm not going to waste my time with such ridiculous hypothetical scenario's when all you are attempting to do is make criticism of McLeish seem unreasonable.

That scenario is utterly daft. As for Birmingham I mentioned it before you did in an another attempt to make criticism look unreasonable.

Surely results prove whether he is a good manager. I am not saying he is or he is not. But I find it laughable that fans of this club will not give a manager a season before judging them on the only thing that matters....results!

Who liked Mourinho's style of play? Still the Chelsea fans love him.

You can judge him however and whenever you want, I'm not telling you to do otherwise but I will do the same. Oh and its not just the performances or football I'm judging him on its the results which have been shit.

You can try and draw comparisons to Mourinho all you want but it just looks rather foolish.

[Bazdavies79]

but I think a couple of seasons of under performance should seal his fate.

A couple of seasons! Surely you jest!

If we appointed someone who you thought was great, how long would you give them before you got fed up?

To answer my own question, I suppose it depends on how badly we do.

[fripono]

He's made one very poor choice in his career, and that was to go to work for bosses who were always going to leave him hamstrung. It took him a worryingly long time to accept this, but to his credit he finally made the wise decision.

Now working for a club with integrity, he is presently weighed down with two burdens; a fanbase starved of success, permeated by negativity, and a team soaked in the ethos of MON's skill-lite counter-play, incapable of adapting and drained of courage Just watch the injury list mount up.

This is the same problem Houllier faced, though I feel McLeish is better equipped to overcome it. Realistically though, I am reconciled to another nine months of VillaTalk mayhem before his own team can express itself.

McLeish can't guarantee future success but neither can I pinpoint anyone I would rather have in his place. The usual suspects are currently doing no better than us.

As an aside, it is disappointing how much faith so many here have in the tyranny of the majority.

[irreverentad]

Trent,

Your own point was it doesn't matter where we finish. That is crazy, surely? Yes the statement about Champions League and winning the League is "daft" But not as daft as the fact that results dont matter as a measure to how well a manager is performing. You say you are also judging him on results, so if they improve I take it your opinion would improve?

The Mourinho comparison is was about his style of play which is a more than valid comparison as both are accused of playing 'anti-football' it is just that one gets results so far.....which is the measure I am saying he should be judged by. So in no way foolish.

I really cannot understand threads about protests and the level of criticism. He at least should be given the season.

As we are both banging our heads against equally large and stubborn brick walls, I shall leave it there.

[irreverentad]

He's made one very poor choice in his career, and that was to go to work for bosses who were always going to leave him hamstrung. It took him a worryingly long time to accept this, but to his credit he finally made the wise decision.

Now working for a club with integrity, he is presently weighed down with two burdens; a fanbase starved of success, permeated by negativity, and a team soaked in the ethos of MON's skill-lite counter-play, incapable of adapting and drained of courage Just watch the injury list mount up.

This is the same problem Houllier faced, though I feel McLeish is better equipped to overcome it. Realistically though, I am reconciled to another nine months of VillaTalk mayhem before his own team can express itself.

McLeish can't guarantee future success but neither can I pinpoint anyone I would rather have in his place. The usual suspects are currently doing no better than us.

As an aside, it is disappointing how much faith so many here have in the tyranny of the majority.

Good post.

I agree. The lack of courage one is the big one for me. None of our players have an iron will to win. That is not McLeish's fault, I wouldnt mind betting that the courage of our players has shocked him. I hate seeing players smiling and larking about when the leave the field after a defeat.

Unfortunately it happens too much.

[TrentVilla]

You own point was it doesn't matter where we finish. That is crazy, surely? Yes the statement about Champions League and winning the League is "daft" But not as daft as the fact that results dont matter as a measure to how well a manager is performing. You say you are also judging him on results, so if they improve I take it your opinion would improve?

I've already said it isn't just about results but you don't want to hear it.

The Mourinho comparison is was about his style of play which is a more than valid comparison as both are accused of playing 'anti-football' it is just that one gets results so far.....which is the measure I am saying he should be judged by. So in no way foolish.

No I'm sorry it isn't a valid comparison. Mourinho had a proven track record of success (albeit short) and his football at Chelsea was nothing like that of McLeish. The accusations levelled at Mourinho were largely limited to his teams performances in individual games, usually when faced with a team with more creative flair than his own. Yet on many occasions they tore teams apart.

McLeish's sides have never done that and he does not have a comparative history of success. I'm sorry but I don't see it as a valid comparison at all, it is simply one you are trying to use to support your stance.

I really cannot understand threads about protests and the level of criticism. He at least should be given the season.

As I said you are welcome to your opinion but I too am entitled to mine.

As we are both banging our heads against equally large and stubborn brick walls, I shall leave it there.

Fine by me I've made my stance perfectly clear.

[dudevillaisnice]

The Mourinho comparison is was about his style of play which is a more than valid comparison as both are accused of playing 'anti-football' it is just that one gets results so far.....which is the measure I am saying he should be judged by. So in no way foolish.

The football at Chelsea back then is far better than the current rubbish played at Villa Park.. Under Mourinho they actually had attacking intent to start with.

[Thug]

He's made one very poor choice in his career, and that was to go to work for bosses who were always going to leave him hamstrung. It took him a worryingly long time to accept this, but to his credit he finally made the wise decision.

Now working for a club with integrity, he is presently weighed down with two burdens; a fanbase starved of success, permeated by negativity, and a team soaked in the ethos of MON's skill-lite counter-play, incapable of adapting and drained of courage Just watch the injury list mount up.

This is the same problem Houllier faced, though I feel McLeish is better equipped to overcome it. Realistically though, I am reconciled to another nine months of VillaTalk mayhem before his own team can express itself.

McLeish can't guarantee future success but neither can I pinpoint anyone I would rather have in his place. The usual suspects are currently doing no better than us.

As an aside, it is disappointing how much faith so many here have in the tyranny of the majority.

If at any point in his career he had done anything to suggest that he could do what you are suggesting he may, then I'd agree with you.

He has demonstrated wherever he has been that his preferred methodology is to soak up pressure, and hope to win by nicking a goal at a set piece - hence the disproportionally high draw rate.

What you fail to see is that the best we have to look forward to is more of the same, but done more efficiently.

What angers me more than anything else, is that he is not even good at what he does best! If we wanted to pursue this dross, there were and are better options out there.

There is no need to wait 9 months to let the team express themselves. They already are expressing themsleves. In 9 months they may be more eloquent in what they are expressing, but the 'sermon' will still be the same.

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

Wow some ppl are seriously trying to compare McCrap- a failed in Prem crap version of Gary Megson with Mourinho ???

Seriously??

[KHV]

He's made one very poor choice in his career, and that was to go to work for bosses who were always going to leave him hamstrung. It took him a worryingly long time to accept this, but to his credit he finally made the wise decision.

Now working for a club with integrity, he is presently weighed down with two burdens; a fanbase starved of success, permeated by negativity, and a team soaked in the ethos of MON's skill-lite counter-play, incapable of adapting and drained of courage Just watch the injury list mount up.

This is the same problem Houllier faced, though I feel McLeish is better equipped to overcome it. Realistically though, I am reconciled to another nine months of VillaTalk mayhem before his own team can express itself.

McLeish can't guarantee future success but neither can I pinpoint anyone I would rather have in his place. The usual suspects are currently doing no better than us.

As an aside, it is disappointing how much faith so many here have in the tyranny of the majority.

Good post.

I agree. The lack of courage one is the big one for me. None of our players have an iron will to win. That is not McLeish's fault, I wouldnt mind betting that the courage of our players has shocked him. I hate seeing players smiling and larking about when the leave the field after a defeat.

Unfortunately it happens too much.

If you set up with 10 men behind the ball and have Allbrighton and Gabby acting as spare full backs then that is the mangers fault.